They just opened a huge can of worms..

[paulcs]

I actually think most Democrats aren't liberal, and the fact that they voted for Nixon, Reagan, and George Bush, Sr. in droves further convinces me. The liberal wing of the Democratic Party used to dominate the primaries and select candidates further to the left than they do now. The Southern Leadership Council has succeeded in moving the party to the center, much to the chagrin of the "rule or ruin" Naderettes, and this eventually led to the Clinton presidency, the Welfare Reform Act, a continuation of George Bush's foreign policy, and a very pro-business economic policy that heavily emphasizes free trade.

I actually think the mainstream Democratic Party has ignored and angered the party's left wing, and until recently, without consequence. My fear about George W. Bush is, like his father, he cannot afford to alienate the Republican Party's right wing.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Rags]

Rags

[spoogenet]

LOL.

Guess CNN forgot to take the cameras to the streets those people were on....

b

[Brian R.]

Oh No...You mean Buchanan isn't a Democrat?

(What a mess)


I think, if Florida is the sticking point, recount all of it. Hire enough people to get the job done quickly and do it. Also, I was under the impression the recount would alos be done my machine, just the ballot checking for inaccurate voting would be done by hand.

[This message has been edited by Brian R. (edited 12 November 2000).]

[Joel]

Yeah, What's a few million dollars to spend to have every ballot in the US hand counted. I mean between the Dems and Repubs they have already spent about 130 million dollars of taxpayers money during this election, what's a couple more.

Joel

[Wombat]

Why recount? Why not revote? If the machines were in question, then just fix the machines and have another round. They have the logs, they can let in only the people that voted on Election Day.

[Rags]

Would never happen, Wombat.

The constitution clearly states what day election day is on. A revote could only be held if mass fraud or mistake were to occur. Because there are some idiotic people who can't figure out a ballot (who account for less than one percents of voters), doesn't mean we should all do this again. If I **** up my vote, that's my problem and no one elses.

Mistakes happen in every election in almost every precinct. Some people vote for others who they intended not to, some machines don't read certain ballots, they aren't perfect. But if you think for a minute that people are more perfect than machines in counting that volume of ballots, you are mistaken.

Rags

[KvHagedorn]

Wombat, a revote would be even more contaminated than a manual recount. And if they get to revote only in Palm Beach county, Florida, and not everywhere in the country, the results would count for more than they should. Everyone who voted for Nader might switch to Gore, knowing that they have the power in their hands to select the president. There are no easy answers now. That's my point. They just totally screwed the pooch.

------------------
Kind Regards,

KvH

[paulcs]

I'm taking a more optimistic view. Worse has taken place in the past and the mighty republic just got mightier. Systems are in place. We this is all over and done with, it'll make for an interesting lesson in civics, and good reason for a dialogue about how the system works. For the most part, that's how I've been viewing it.

By the way, does anyone else think Florida's Secretary of State is a babe? I've seen some bad pictures of her, but she looked great on TV last week. (I wouldn't kick her out of the voting booth.)

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[paulcs]

I agree that the Nadarettes are a sticking point here.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net

[Wombat]

I agree that the people voting for Nader would be an issue. However, the hand recount is worthy not because of the "double voting" or even the "oops, Buchanan", but because the punchcard style machines that Palm Beach uses aren't reliable. The punches don't always register, and no vote is registered. The same machines were challenged in 1996, and the court let the recount stand.

A larger issue for me are the large numbers of voters that were in line to vote when they were told that the polls were closed and that they were to leave. Related, are the areas where polling places "ran out of ballots".

[Rags]

Hey, when the polls close here, there is always a line of people. The time the polls close is the same and not bendable. If you aren't in a booth when time runs out, tough.

Rags

[Wombat]

That's not the way things work. If there's a line, then you have to stop adding people to the line, but let those in line vote. Otherwise what you're doing is controlling who gets to vote.

[Rags]

[KvHagedorn]

Hundreds of counties in this country use a variant of the punch card ballot. We are giving residents of Palm Beach county special priviledges by recounting their votes and no others. And what about other imperfect voting methods? (That being ALL voting methods) It has to stop here and not go to a hand count or it must proceed EVERYWHERE. If the same methods arent used in ALL cases, the election is tainted as far as I'm concerned. Moreover, the hand count introduces human bias in every case, which also taints the election. Jim Baker is right. The mechanical recount should stand, the absentee ballots should be counted when they come in, and that should decide it.
The media put this one particular ballot under scrutiny to create this whole mess for the sake of creating a news story and getting more people to watch their crap. Believe it. No one cares about anything as a community in this country. It's just all blinded self-interest.