Whistler and Copy Protection

[Himself]

New 'Whistler' build adds anti-piracy lock

The most potentially controversial addition to Whistler 2410, however, is anti-piracy code that Microsoft is calling "Microsoft Product Activation for Windows," (WPA) according to testers. The technology is similar to the Office Activation Wizard that's part of Office 2000.

WPA will tie a Windows product key to one specific PC in order to reduce casual copying. In order to "activate" it, a customer will send data about the installation, such as product ID number and hardware identifier, to a Microsoft-run license clearinghouse. The clearinghouse won't allow the use of the customer's product key on a PC different from the one originally activated.

Microsoft plans to deliver WPA in all 32-bit versions of Whistler except those sold to volume-licensing customers and the so-called "Royalty OEM initial install images" provided to PC makers, said sources close to the company. Microsoft is expected to add similar anti-piracy technology to Office 10 and Visual Studio .Net, sources said.

Nabbed from <A HREF="http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/news/0,4586,2672131,00.html">here</a>.[/

[Thundrchez]

Yet another way that microsoft is trying to abuse its monopoly power. "What can we do to you today?"

[dZeus]

hmm... that can't be their line, since the line "What can we do to you today?" resembles "What can we sue you for today?", which is patented by Rambus Inc.

[This message has been edited by dZeus (edited 09 January 2001).]

[Gurm]

And it won't discourage the pirates. Not even a little.

In fact, I might have 2 cracks, a hack and a workaround for it on my hard drive right now.

Or I might not.

Heh.

- Gurm

[Paddy]

enigmatic as allways Gurm

btw, what happend to those icons?

[Paulr]

You know, it amazes me.
Microsoft attempt to build copy protection into their software to stop piracy and then immediately every starts crying 'No fair, you guys suck'
Hummm, guesses most of you are not running legit software then.
Well if nobody else is, I'm all for it, however the OEM versions will still be available on your favourite sites, so you'll still be able to get your software for free - never worry.

[Gurm]

Paul,

The issue here isn't anti-piracy. It's that if I _buy_ a legitimate copy of Whistler (when it comes out, of course) and install it on my machine... I cannot then uninstall it and put it on a different machine. It is well within my legal rights to have it on a dozen machines if I so choose, so long as only one runs at a time.

However, they are now keying the serial number to your processor. (Intel CPU Serial Numbers, anyone?) This is most patently unfair and uncool. They're using system information to maintain a database on you with your serial numbers in it.

MOST UNCOOL.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[dZeus]

I thought only P3 and Athlon have a readable serial number... btw. I've disabled mine in the BIOS

[Bursar]

Gurm, I think MS changed their licensing agreements a little while ago, and you are in danger of being busted for piracy.

I'm fairly sure that Microsoft now requires you have a license for every copy of software that is installed. It doesn't matter how many are used at once. If you have 12 installations, you need 12 licenses.

I think Paul has got it wrong as well. This whole situation is similar to the BIOS locked OS recovery disks. People have bought machines, fancy an upgrade with a new motherboard, and then presto, they can't reinstall their OS.

They've paid good money for the OS (as part of the system costs), and can now not use it.

On the other side, if you go into a shop and buy a copy, it's going to be locked to the particular PC you install it onto.

I guess MS are going to store the serial numbers of the software along with the hardware specific details.

One upgrade later (maybe even a BIOS flash), and you can't reinstall the software you've just paid for.

It's hardly fair is it?

And if they use the Intel CPU numbers for the hardware identification, I think we'll see sales of AMD CPU's go through the roof!!

[Jammrock]

What M$ won't do to make more money. The new anti-piracy thing will accomplish two things:

1) Stop the casual pirate. When Joe Shmoe gets a new computer with Whistler and tries to put it on his buddies computer. "Well it worked on mine," he'll say and call it a day. Anyone who knows anything about getting stuff Black Eye Patch style will get Whistler no matter what M$ does.

2) Piss people off. If it's true that the registration is machine specific this is an outrage! What if I'm a hard core gamer who shelled out my hard earned cash for Whistler (theoretically speaking), upgraded my CPU only to find out that Whistler won't work anymore! Can you say Class Action Lawsuit?

It's things like this that make people so irrate over Microsoft. If Microsoft doesn't treat their customers with decency and honesty, how are the customers supposed to be decent and honest to them?

Jammrock

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Athlon 650
256 MB PC133 CAS3 from Crucial
40 GB storage from WD
Matrox G400 (it's not dead yet!)
SB Live! the original full retail, still going strong
Klipsch ProMedia v.2-400, the PC speakers that goes BOOM!
Hope Matrox releases the G800 before rebuild time, becuase the end is near!

[Paulr]

'Class Law-Suit'
Blimey, I am so pleased that kind of thing hasn't made it's way to the shores of the UK yet in a big style.
It seems that as soon as anything goes against somebody or throws hot coffee over themselves they go off and sue somebody!

So, you upgrade your PC, install a new CPU for example.
A message pops up along the lines of 'This copy of Windows is not running on the machine for which it is licensed'
My guess is that you will then have some 10 or so boots to log onto the net and re-submit your information.
It all matches, your OS is unlocked otherwise your locked out.
This method could not only stop the casual pirate but the more advanced ones too.
Can MS force people to register the software?
Well a quick look through your Windows license agreement shows that you hardly own the OS anyway, so with it still being property of MS they can really.

[Himself]

Frankly, I like it, the more MS wants to shoot itself in the foot the better. I expect you'll see a quick reversal on this from MS when things don't go so well for them.

Piracy makes Windows available to the people who make it popular outside of the business community. If MS wants to enforce it's rules, great, I'm all for it, but you wouldn't have seen Win2K used for games to the degree that it is, without piracy.

Other than that, the sheer annoyance value fo having to deal with busy servers will cause enough of a backlash to squash the deal.

[Vlip]

You guys forgot the most important wrong part of this idea!!!

What about those guys who do NOT have an internet connection???

You seem all to believe that every computer on that part of the world does have his internet connection! Really far from being true!!!

Vlip

[Gurm]

Vlip:

Heh, no we didn't forget. MS has included a handy-dandy phone number for you to call and get the same sort of thing. There will be a little wizard that gives them the hardware info. they need.

Paul:

If I own a piece of software, I may install it wherever I choose (at least with current licensing agreements). If I choose to have two machines, I may install it on both, but legally I may only activate one of those machines at a time. Period. The difficulty comes in proving in a business-type situation that they are NEVER used at the same time. In a home situation they have to take your word for it.

But the upgrading point is quite valid.

And don't think that because you turn off the CPU ID in the BIOS that it can't be read. Several hackers have already proven that it can be read no matter what.

This is, as Jammrock said, only designed to stop casual pirates and business pirates.

Microsoft doesn't care about your typical pirate. Those people give them free beta testing. They've always loved those people, albeit not officially.

They object to Joe giving it to his friend Steve for free. They also object (rather vehemently) to company X buying one NT license and installing it on 20 machines. That's where they really lose revenue.

And that's what this is designed to prevent. Casual "copy to your friends" piracy and corporate piracy. Mid-level piracy has never been an issue and never really will.

It's like copying CD's. SafeDisc protection doesn't stop REAL pirates. It stops Joe who bought himself a burner and tried to copy his game for a friend. Because that's where the revenue loss is.

- Gurm

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Listen up, you primitive screwheads! See this? This is my BOOMSTICK! Etc. etc.

[paulcs]

Isn't Microsoft is putting limits on how often you can install Whistler on the *same* machine?

I've heard that after a certain number of installs, you will have to call them up to get and get a new registration key.

Paul
paulcs@flashcom.net