More Bull****

[bongo]

Joel; you keep making my point for me. You are nothng but a bully who deletes messages he does not like.

You bully because you can; rather than addressing my points.

so sad.

[bongo]

Rags; did you even get to read my message before Joel deleted it?

[Pneumatic]

Yes, it did happen in Texas, but why should I be offended?

I don't deny that children should be in seat belts. I have mine so well trained that they get on my case when I forget to buckle up. My point is that officers don't routinely go around hauling people to jail in cuffs for seatbelt violations. I do, however, think that if you have a bad attitude and catch the right cop on the wrong day you can find yourself in more trouble than you bargained for.

2 weeks ago I was heading to the gym at 4:15 a.m.. Making a left hand turn I was shocked to see a police car behind me, lights blazing. He came up to the window and the conversation went like this:

Officer: Good morning, sir.

Me: Well, Good Morning (overly jubilant for that time of day)

Officer: How are you doing today.

Me: (snickering) I've been better.

Officer: Didn't you see me at that light back there?

Me: Yes sir, I did.

Officer: I clocked you going 54 on Custer (a 45 mile zone), I then followed you and clocked you going 57 on Park. Any particular reason that you are going so fast?

Me: No, sir. I was just trying to beat my workout partner to the gym so that I could get some time on the treadmill before we work out.

Officer: Is your radar detector broken? (pointing at the radar detector mounted above the rear view mirror)

Me: No sir, I never pay attention to it. (true statement)

Officer: Can I see your drivers license, please?

Me: You certainly could if I had remembered to grab my wallet when I left this morning.

Officer: OK, how about your vehicle registration?

Me: (I fumbled around in the car which is my wife's daily driver [Ford Expedition] trying to figure out which of the compartments the registration was in. a few minutes later I found it) Here ya go sir.

The officer disappears to his car for about 5 minutes, then returns. He hands back my registration and I notice there is no ticket book in his hand.

Officer: You might want to slow it down in the future, especially when you pass policemen.

Me: Yes sir! Will do. Have a good day!

Officer: you too.

See? By being polite and courteous I didn't even get a ticket. If I had been belligerent and called him a dirty good for nothing pig, I probably would have gotten 3 tickets. I contend that it's all in your attitude.

[EchoWars]

Heh...don't mess with Texas! Kindness...yur right...I'll bet she gave the cops an earfull, and when they got sick of listening to it they cuffed and stuffed her. Still, Souter did write in the majority opinion that the cops used 'poor judgement'. I suspect if a rash of arrests starts for infraction offenses (speeding tickets, no seat belts, etc..) that the court could be convinced to change it's mind, and even Souter implied as much.
As for helmet laws, I miss Idaho, where we were free to choose or not to wear a helmet. Proud to be in Missouri now (a helmet state), where, believe it or not, a bill was introduced last year to require SEAT BELTS for motorcycles!!!! All one has to do is to tune into Speedvision and watch a few Superbike or GP races to get an idea of the damage 400lbs of self-destructing motorcycle can do to the human body in a crash if the rider can't put a little distance between himself and his bike. The bill never came close to passing, but just the fact it got introduced scares me and will probably hasten my return to Boise...sheesh!

Edit: Yeah, politeness DOES usually work..I have gotten out of a lot of tickets that way (one on the bike for 135mph on the interstate in Nevada...), but got one from an Idaho State Trooper for 5mph over speed limit. Officer was having a real bad day, and wanted to arrest me after I *very politely* complained. Can't win 'em all...

[This message has been edited by EchoWars (edited 26 April 2001).]

[Strahd]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Kindness!:
If I had been belligerent and called him a dirty good for nothing pig, I probably would have gotten 3 tickets.</font>

Not only that but he may have given your "Noggin a floggin".

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Yes, it did happen in Texas, but why should I be offended? </font>

Just because they alwayus seem to be a little more severe down there, what with exectutions and things like that.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">2 weeks ago I was heading to the gym at 4:15 a.m.. Making a left hand turn I was shocked to see a police car behind me, lights blazing</font>

Now that brings back memories from a few years back. Pulled over at least once a week myself.

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[Joel]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">By being polite and courteous I didn't even get a ticket. If I had been belligerent and called him a dirty good for nothing pig, I probably would have gotten 3 tickets. I contend that it's all in your attitude.</font>

I have to disagree that that is not always the case. I was pulled over one time, for what I thought was speeding, and tried to be as polite as I could but I was still handcuffed and put in the police car while the officer proceeded to search my car. I stayed there until the sergeant of the watch arrived and told the officer to let me go. When the sergeant asked the officer why he felt that he needed to handcuff me he responded saying that I was being too polite and thought I was up to something. The sergeant apologized to me and also made the officer apologize. He also proceeded to tell the officer that they would discuss this further at the end of his watch. I never pursued this any further but this is just one example of how being polite still didn't make a difference.

Joel

[Pneumatic]

Strahd: Is Bongo your brother ? That is a bit of an over generalization. Yeah, Texas is a lot more hardline on the death penalty but I personally would have it no other way. Letting some guy that felt the need to slaughter a family of four live out the rest of his life on my tax money just doesn't sit right with me. But, I really doubt that anyone is going to get the death penalty for not wearing a seatbelt (no matter how bad his attitude is )

Joel: The polite thing does work if used correctly. If you are "Eddie Haskel polite" you may be searched and flogged. If you can fake sincerity you've got it made . Out of the last 3 times I've been pulled over I only received one ticket. I can only think of one other way to get out of a ticket: Be a drop dead gorgeous blonde with big hooters. If you have that going for you, you can probably drive however you want with no fear. Being a male I have to depend on the polite thing and hope for the best.



[This message has been edited by Kindness! (edited 26 April 2001).]

[Jorden]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Being a male I have to depend on the polite thing and hope for the best.
</font>

Or wait for a female cop to stop you so you can show your chesthairs

Jord.

[Joel]

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Or wait for a female cop to stop you so you can show your chesthairs</font>

Believe me that will probably get you thrown into jail quicker.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">The polite thing does work if used correctly.</font>

So I guess saying yes sir, no sir, and cooperating when he asked to see my license and registration is not being polite enough or was that being too polite as the officer told his sergeant. Of course I was young and naive then. Hell I've been a lot less polite since then and have gotten no tickets. I think it all depends on the officer. In this case the officer IMO went to far for what was a simple seat belt violation. Hell the only reason he probably stopped in the first place is because they were driving slowly along the shoulder of the road while they looked for the toy bat.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">I can only think of one other way to get out of a ticket: Be a drop dead gorgeous blonde with big hooters.</font>

I agree with you 100% there.

Joel

[Rags]

Bongo, yes I read your message. You were grouping all of the US citizens together, and you are prime example of what's wrong with the world.

As you can see, we are critical of our own gov't and we don't always agree on everything they do, but just because our gov't does something gives you no right to lash out at the citizens. I see all this US bashing and it makes me wonder how you can be so hypocritical.

Rags

[FrankDC]

While it's true that being rude to the police is not a good idea if you're trying to talk your way out of a traffic ticket, there's certainly no law against it. The fact is, YOU are paying THEIR paychecks. THEY are supposed to protect and serve YOU.

And to Kindness, your namesake is more than a little ironic. The judicial process in Texas is, from all accounts, one of the most corrupt and immoral systems in the civilized world. They put to death mentally ill people, those who committed crimes as juveniles and 62 year-old great grandmothers.

[windigo]

only 2 things I find wrong with the US system is that they medicate people who are mentally ill just to kill them rather than having a health care system that couldve helped prevent the tragedy in the first place
and second of all they incarerate so many people that it pushes more violent offenders out sooner
for instance commit a murder in Canada and your gone for 17 years before you can even apply for parole! now thats how you punish and make an example of criminals

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MSI K7TPro2 Duron 750@900
256Ram G400DH32mb
Pioneer SCSI 16xDVD
msn messenger id: mkanashta

[Rags]

I agree with you, our "warehousing" of criminals is out of hand in the US, we lock up people for using drugs, we lock up citizens for all kinds of silly things. We also aren't focused on reform in our penal system.

Now health care, as you bring it up...well it's best that you don't start an argument there

Rags

[Joel]

Yeah and our system is so twisted up sometimes that they are willing to let a murderer or rapist go free just so they can lock up someone who didn't pay his taxes.

As for the ones who are locked up for using drugs, over half a million the last I heard. IMO the most cost effective thing would be to send them through a drug treatment program. They say it cost between $25,000 and $35,000 a year to keep someone locked up in our penal system. For murders, rapist, and those that committed crimes against man I can see it as money well spent. But to spend the same amount to lock up someone just because they smoked a little weed is ridiculous. A drug treatment program wouldn't cost that much, even a private run one, and it may have longer and more meaningful results.

Joel

EDIT: I have been informed that the national average to keep someone in prison is 40K/yr, death row 65k/yr. These figures are from 1998 data and this is for normal prisoners not high security. And that is 2 to 3 times more than they spend on my child's education each year.


[This message has been edited by Joel (edited 27 April 2001).]

[Pneumatic]

FrankDC:
David Dawson was sentenced to die for the December 1, 1986 murder of Madeline Marie Kisner of Kenton while burglarizing her home. Madeline was a 45-year-old bookkeeper and was stabbed to death by Dawson and a couple other inmates who had escaped from Delaware Correctional Institution near Smyrna a few days earlier.
He was put to death yesterday. And you have a problem with that, why?

In 1984, David Goff was sentenced to 15 years in prison for two counts of attempted capital murder with a deadly weapon. He served less than 5 years due to the mandatory release law which awarded him a day and a half of "good time" for every day he served and was paroled in July of 1989. Just over one year later, on September 1, 1990, he murdered Michael N. McGuire, 34, during an attempted robbery. Michael was kidnapped, handcuffed, drugged and shot to death.
Status: Executed. Will he get out? NO. Will he kill again? No. Is he costing me a dime? No. Am I broken up about it? NO

Jason Massey was convicted and sentenced to death for the 1993 murders of two young teenagers whose bodies were found by a road worker on a rural road in Telico in Ellis County, Texas. James Brian King, 14, had been shot in the head, and his 13-year-old stepsister Christina Benjamin had been stripped, raped, disemboweled and dismembered. Ellis County sheriff's Lt. Royce Gothard said the girl's naked body was in the brush beside a gravel road. Her head and hands were severed and the body was covered with cuts. The boy's fully clothed body was found 100 yards away in a creek with no visible wounds, Gothard said. The place where the bodies were found was about 15 miles from the teens' home in Garrett. Officials impounded Massey's 1982 Subaru. They collected certain forensic evidence from the truck linking Massey to the killings. The jury took just three hours to convict Massey after hearing testimony from a former friend of Massey, 18-year-old Chris Nowlin, who told the court that Massey had said he wanted to have sex with Benjamin, then kill her and mutilate her. "I didn't pay much attention to him because he was always talking about killing girls," Nowlin testified. Nowlin said he and Massey spent much of the summer of 1993 drinking, driving around and doing LSD, marijuana and cocaine. Her body parts have never been found. Massey had decided he was going to become the worst serial killer that Texas had ever seen. He was known to torture animals and was only nine years old when he killed his first cat. Many more dead animals followed, including dogs and even six cows. Massey stalked a young woman, and revered killers like Ted Bundy, Charles Manson, and Henry Lee Lucas. Investigators discovered a long list of potential victims and his diaries were filled with fantasies of rape, torture, and cannibalism of female victims. He was obsessed with bringing girls under his control and having their dead bodies in his possession.
Status: Executed April 2001
A real winner, huh? Want him as a neighbor? Don't worry, I can guarantee that won't happen.


These were the executions so far this month. Besides these there were 5 stays of execution granted. I know that the mentally unstable and the little old ladies grab the attention of the media, but consistancy is the key. If you kill in Texas, you will be executed. If you actually took the time to read these stories (which you probably didn't), please tell me why we should keep these people alive? If you really think they are redeemable move them into your house and get to work. No, I didn't think so. Well, the only other solution is to let them rot in jail watching cable and working out in the gym. Guess who pays for that.....ME, and I'm not real pleased with that. Why should I have to pay more in taxes because there is some idiot out there that can't follow the rules? Personally, I don't think they deserve to breath the air for another second.

Yes, Kindness! is the name, but people that don't give kindness don't deserve it. That's why I am pro death penalty.

p.s. I also think there should be no such term as "prison overcrowding". Prison should be uncomfortable. Stack them in like cord wood and maybe people will actually strive to stay out of there.

/me steps off of soapbox




[This message has been edited by Kindness! (edited 27 April 2001).]