Asus releases 'Cheat' video drivers - the B@$^*%DS!!

[Jammrock]

I've seen good players, and I've seen cheaters. I was in a 4 on 2 game (me on the 4 team) and lost by a 4 to 1 ratio. He had more frags than my entire team did. He was a good player. I have seen many good players, I know how they play.

I have seen cheaters. When you are crouched behind a 1 of 7 different boxes and they pick out the right box you are hiding behind 100% of the time...they are cheating. When someone gets 6 head shots in a row with the big machine gun...they are cheating. There are very obvious ways to tell.

I'm not an incredible CS gamer, but I know what you can and cannot do. If someone is kicking my butt honestly, I have no troubles with it. It can only help me learn the game better. When someone cheats, it pisses me off.

Jammrock

[ahartman]

Tarnar,

Please get your facts straight before posting to message boards.

I've been very active in the TFC clan scene and have been following PunkBuster from the beginning.

I was one of the biggest opponents of PB when it was announced. Lag, Spyware, PB hacks - they've all been used as excuses not to run PB. All have been shown to be UNTRUE. The reason there seems to be a new PunkBuster release every couple of days is because they're trying to keep up with the hackers. The software will update itself when you connect to a PB server and does not suck noticable amounts of bandwidth during the update or normal operation.

And no, they're not blocking all ASUS drivers - just the version that allows the 'new technology'. Tony Ray has offered to license the method of blocking THOSE SPECIFIC DRIVERS to any game developer for a flat $1 fee.

Sure, having your uber-cool skins rocks, would you rather your opponent be able to have his uber-cool skins be spiked models or be stuck with the standard models? For the record, VALVE disallowed custom models, not PB.

Will cheaters ever be beat? No. Can something like PB make it enough work that they decide to move on to something else? YES.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Cheating has to be accepted as a part of the game and dilligence must be maintained by both developer and server administrator alike. </font>

Um, No, I don't have to accept that someone should be able to wreck my game.

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Should I keep going?</font>

Please don't - the misinformation you're spreading is unreal. Come up with some valid reasons not to run PunkBuster and I'll be more than happy to debate them. Until then, please keep your speculation and untruths to yourself.

Next time, please take a little time to learn about the topic you're discussing.

I apologize for being so long-winded, but I'm tired of people looking for reasons to bash PunkBuster. Have you even TRIED it? Have you had a game ruined by some clown that always knows EXACTLY where you're coming from?

edit: spelling

[This message has been edited by ahartman (edited 17 May 2001).]

[Liquid Snake]

Surprisingly, I've run into very few cheaters. Yes, cheating will always be there, but is there a reason why we can't try to minimize it?

[Wombat]

I love punkbuster. If I set up my own server it will be punkbuster required.
It sounds like Tarnar has something to fear, if you ask me.

And if punkbuster progresses properly, it will be difficult to fool. MD5 checksums are difficult to beat.

Oh, and they aren't banning multiple OpenGL drivers. Read your own quote. They're going against systems that have multiple drivers in memory. There are very few honest people that affects.

And I don't consider model skinning legit in CS. I've seen models out there that I know I don't want my character to look like.

[DuRaNgO]

Yup, Punkbuster is the way to go!
No Asus drivers? aw, too bad

[Tarnar]

You missed my point entirely. Its not the fact that they'll be blocking unwanted drivers, it's not the fact that you can't use custom skins/models.. It's not the fact that you're losing freedom as a gamer, because you certainly don't have the freedom to ruin everyone else's fun.

It's the simple fact that the software won't keep working. Someone will defeat it. The PB developers even know it's likely to happen eventually.. Yes, the authentication keys are sent from their servers, but there is still a client present on the end users machine and it will be compromised. I argue this simply because security through obscurity is not security at all.

When I said people must accept cheating as a part of the game, I wasn't promoting it at all. I meant that cheating will happen no matter what any of us want to do about it. As I said, game developers and server administrators have to be dilligent.

PB is just another layer that will be defeated. A real-time blackhole list esque system would work far better.. Only then you have to wonder how that list gets made. Who adds the punks to the list? Server admins? Who said they can be trusted?

Anyone who believes online gaming will ever be cheat-free is only fooling themselves. This is the Internet, there *is* no trust model.

[Wombat]

Tarnar,
It seems you missed my point too. In CounterStrike, I don't WANT anyone using custom skins or models. They'll change how I look to make me an easier target. The spikey models are already out there.

And yes, the client program is on the client machine, but it will be tricky (not impossible, I said tricky) to defeat if the client is forced to do an MD5 of a random section of its own code, in addition to a few other things.

[Helevitia]

Tarnish,

You are an idiot. It's people like you that ruin it for everyone else. If you can't see why no one wants these drivers(and it has nothing to do with gamers freedom) than remind me to always avoid any server you ever play on. Cheating doesn't have any place in my book. Go post in another forum where there are others like you. You certainly wont get my sympathy(I know, you didn't ask for it), nor will I ever see your point and certainly most of the people of this forum will not see your point either. As a matter of fact, go vote like I said in the first place so you can see that 90% agree with me So go start up a server where all people can use the Asus drivers, change the skins, add scripts, manipulate the code and try to avoid all of the others.

Dave

[Wombat]

On another note, Asus announced that they are removing the cheat code from all future drivers. Hopefully something will come out that will make the hacked old drivers useless.

[Tarnar]

I don't know why you all assume I'm a cheater. I also don't know why you won't listen to me. I'm not saying that cheating is good. I'm not saying that we should all be able to do whatever we want with skins and models.

I'm saying that the approach taken by these programs will not work. I'm saying that cheating will always exist. That's all. Now, quit insulting me and assuming what I never said.

[Liquid Snake]

True, but why can't we at least try to minimize the cheating going on, instead of just letting it happen?

[DuRaNgO]

I have no problem losing a few features in order to cut down on the cheating

[Helevitia]

Well Tarnar, I never said you cheated and you basically told us that we should accept cheating because that is the way it is. I'll tell you what, you let people cheat on your girlfriend/wife and accept it because that is the way it is and I'll start accepting the Asus drivers and live with it. deal?
I will never accept cheating in games or anything else for any situation.

Dave

[Helevitia]

Tarnar, et all,

It gives me great pleasure to announce that Asus will remove the cheat features from their drivers starting with the next update and that they will also provide a way for web hosts to detect and disable “see-through” functionality.

I am feeling a little better now

Dave

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What if the Hokey Pokey is what it's all about?

[Rags]

Looks like all of our emails to Asus have paid off. Too bad their tech support weren't the same...

Rags