Doctors are 3 times as deadly as guns.

[Joel]

So why is the AMA targeting firearms?

WASHINGTON, DC -- Doctors kill three times as many people every
year as guns do -- which is why the new head of the American Medical
Association should stop crusading against guns and target incompetent
physicians instead, say Libertarians.

"Message to the AMA: Doctor control would save far more lives
than gun control," said Steve Dasbach, national director of the
Libertarian Party.

"Instead of adopting a political agenda and working to
eliminate the Second Amendment, doctors should adopt a medical agenda
and work to eliminate deadly, derelict doctors."

Last week, Dr. Richard Corlin sparked a huge controversy by
adopting "gun safety" as his platform when he was inaugurated as
president of the American Medical Association.

Citing "an epidemic of handgun violence," Corlin demanded an
increased firearms research budget for the federal Centers for Disease
Control, and more studies of trigger locks and ways to reduce
accidental shootings.

But Corlin failed to mention that, according to studies,
doctors kill three times as many Americans each year as guns do, said
Dasbach.

"According to a report by the Institute of Medicine, 98,000
Americans are killed every year by medical errors," he noted. "By
contrast, 30,708 gun-related deaths occurred in 1998 -- meaning
incompetent doctors are more than three times as deadly as guns."

The Institute's 1999 report called the medical error rate
"stunningly high" and cited "horrific cases" of malpractice, such as a
man who had the wrong leg amputated by a sloppy surgeon.

"If Corlin is concerned about saving lives, why isn't he
campaigning to keep scalpels out of the hands of slipshod surgeons?"
asked Dasbach. "Or demanding background checks for doctors, federal
lawsuits against the medical industry, or a 'cooling off' period to
keep doctors who have just injured a patient out of the operating room
for a few days?"

Corlin's campaign against guns also violates the Hippocratic
Oath of "First Do No Harm," Dasbach pointed out.

"Americans use guns to defend themselves 2.4 million times a
year, according to the Gun Owners Foundation," he said. "So Corlin's
anti-gun agenda could harm -- or even kill -- 2.4 million innocent
Americans every year. That's medical malpractice on a grand scale."

Corlin ought to consider how he would react if the tables were
turned, said Dasbach.

"Imagine the response from doctors if the president of the
National Rifle Association started attacking an 'epidemic of operating
room violence' -- and began campaigning for more medical malpractice
lawsuits," he said. "Yet that's exactly what the AMA has been doing for
years. These physicians have been targeting guns instead of something
they actually have control over: Their incompetent colleagues who are
killing 98,000 of their own patients every year."

The fact is, gun violence isn't a medical issue, it's a
criminal issue, said Dasbach.

"People who use a gun to commit a crime should be arrested and
prosecuted -- which is the job of the police, not doctors," he said.
"Honest, peaceful gun owners should be left alone by misguided doctors
masquerading as politicians.

"In other words, doctors, heal thyselves -- instead of wasting
your time attacking an industry that saves millions of lives every
year."

Joel

[paulcs]

Today, of all days, we should not get into a Second Amendment arguement. We should remember what the Second Amendment was all about. Now go out and shoot the first English tourist you see.

Paul
paulcs@speakeasy.net

[ayoub_ibrahim]

Originally posted by paulcs
Now go out and shoot the first English tourist you see.

can we not negotiate this paulcs?

[Nuno]

Hmmm.... Doctors...

I got your point, Joel, but I just want to comment a bit off-topic about that "medical errors" stuff, because I live with it every day.

In the first place, doctors are ordinary people, not gods. Ordinary people makes mistakes. How many of you can say that you haven´t commited a single mistake on your whole carreer? Of course there are another kind of mistakes, the GROSS, BIG mistakes, and those ones should be punished.

Second, most of things people usually call "medical errors", "medical negligency" is not so. Medicine is not a exact science, it runs mostly on probabilities. Every medical act is a risk to some extent. You can die because I prescribe you an aspirin. You can have a hand gangrena if I am taking an arterial blood sample from the radial arteria. You can die on a surgical procedure, due to cardiac failure, arythmias, alergy/ideosyncratic reaction to anestesia... That´s the way that is and people have to live with that.

These are the vast majority of deaths/injury that occur and people tend to classify it as medical errors. How sad.

[Dilitante1]

Joel, the point you make with your post is valid but can be described easier.....if a DOCTOR is a trained professional, why do they call his work "a practice"?


the AMA has fought guns and ammunition companies for years (for example hollow point ammo for consumers/military use)



Dil

[Joel]

Hey Nuno,

I agree with most of what you say but when I see my wife's grandfather sitting in a wheelchair in nursing home because of a Doctor's f***up and that Doctor is still practicing then I find alot of it a hard pill to swallow. I think this is the main part of the whole thing.

[quote]Corlin's campaign against guns also violates the Hippocratic Oath of "First Do No Harm," Dasbach pointed out.

"Americans use guns to defend themselves 2.4 million times a
year, according to the Gun Owners Foundation," he said. "So Corlin's anti-gun agenda could harm -- or even kill -- 2.4 million innocent Americans every year. That's medical malpractice on a grand scale."

Corlin ought to consider how he would react if the tables were
turned, said Dasbach.

"Imagine the response from doctors if the president of the
National Rifle Association started attacking an 'epidemic of operating room violence' -- and began campaigning for more medical malpractice lawsuits," he said. "Yet that's exactly what the AMA has been doing for years. These physicians have been targeting guns instead of something they actually have control over: Their incompetent colleagues who are killing 98,000 of their own patients every year."

The fact is, gun violence isn't a medical issue, it's a criminal issue, said Dasbach.

"People who use a gun to commit a crime should be arrested and
prosecuted -- which is the job of the police, not doctors," he said.
"Honest, peaceful gun owners should be left alone by misguided doctors masquerading as politicians.

"In other words, doctors, heal thyselves -- instead of wasting
your time attacking an industry that saves millions of lives every
year."[quote]

Joel

[Pelle]

"So Corlin's anti-gun agenda could harm -- or even kill -- 2.4 million innocent Americans every year. That's medical malpractice on a grand scale."

Well Joel,

you know it's funny: whenever I think that the times of political agendas are finally over, you manage to post something that REALLY drives me mad.

But I certainly don't want to get in any discussion on this - my grandfather was a doctor, my father is a doctor, and my brother is becoming one, whereas you have a victim of medical malpractice in the family. And I agree with you to some extend - frome time to time, doctor's do a job a butcher would be ashamed of.

And on this gun - thingy: trying to take American's their guns away seems to be as hopeless an idea as trying to enforce a speed limit on German Autobahns.

So I'll just shut up :-)

Ciao, Pelle

[impact]

AFAIK, even autobahns do have speed limits on them nowadays... at least some of them... the germans just ain't what they used to be...

[Pelle]

Well, it feels as if there were speed limits everywhere, but in fact less than 40% have a speed limit on them.

I suspect that the European integration will at some point bring a "harmonization" of speeding laws with them though ...

Ciao, Pelle

[paulcs]

I'd just like to point out a common myth here: The do no harm prohibition in the Hippocratic Oath is given no primacy. There's no "first." In fact, it isn't always translated as "do no harm," and it is buried in the middle.

I got curious once, because I heard the oath, and it didn't start out the way I expected. Then I started noticing that the "first do no harm" line was always quoted by someone with an ax to grind. I had nothing to do one day, so I started researching various translations of the Hippocratic Oath. I even checked out the incredibly wimpy (warm and fuzzy/no pagan gods) World Health Organization version of the Oath.

As is often the case with old oaths, the first order of business is to swear that you'll honor the oath:

I swear by Apollo the physician, by Æsculapius, Hygeia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgement, the following Oath.

Now here's the interesting part. Primacy appears to be given to what I suspect may be the foundation of professional courtesy amongst physicians:

To consider dear to me as my parents him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and if necessary to share my goods with him; to look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art if they so desire without fee or written promise; to impart to my sons and the sons of the master who taught me and the disciples who have enrolled themselves and have agreed to the rules of the profession, but to these alone the precepts and the instruction.

I found that where the "do no harm" part ended up depended on the translation. Sometimes it was translated as "do no mischief," which implies intentionality. Ironically, I think many of the people who give this section primacy may be indulging in a little mischief themselves. It's important to note what they leave out.

I will prescribe regimen for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgement and never do harm to anyone. To please no one will I prescribe a deadly drug nor give advice which may cause his death. Nor will I give a woman a pessary to procure abortion. But I will preserve the purity of my life and my art.

I think "according to my ability and judgement" is key here. I don't think Hippocraties was an idiot, and I suspect he was allowing for accidents and misjudgements. I also suspect that during Hippocraties' time, physicians caused far more harm than good in the practice of their art.

It is nice to know that doctors are not allowed to poisen their patients to please a third party.

Now, I really think that anyone who quotes an ancient text should be forced by law to live by it in its entirety. (I'm talking about Mr. Dasbach here, who should know better and probably does.)

I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.

That's right. The Hippocratic Oath forbids physicians to perform surgery. Surgery was beneath the physician and throughout much of western history was performed by the barber-surgeon. If people were forced to live with their hypocracies, and let's say Mr. Dasbach needed a heart transplant, it would have to be performed by his hair stylist.

In closing the oath forbids nookie with patients

In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves. (You'll note that it doesn't say anything about one's male students.)

and lays the foundation for doctor-patient privilege

All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.

A modest wammy is added at the very end:

If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.

Paul
paulcs@speakeasy.net

[Joel]

I think what this is ultimately trying to say is that as president of the American Medical Association, Dr. Richard Corlin should have better things to do instead of playing politcis with the gun control issue which is not a medical issue. In other words clean out your closet first before telling someone else to clean out theirs.

Joel