OT: Bush's speach

[Joel]

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/27/124953.shtml

Joel

[Greebe]

Ok now I'll post... TP, Wombat isn't afraid of people being killed or an extremist by any means of the word! His resolve will not impede action like what occured prior to WWII either. He's against, like many others, as to the extremity of others radical thoughts on this topic. Be it what it may, this topic is to heavy for the forums and should be of spoken word only because emotion and thoughts are not conveyed in text the manner or being to be fully understood.

If it starts getting to any of you, stop listening/reading/watching it all.

I do believe that the goverment made a very smart move to call this a "War against Terrorism" and not "Get bin Laden". I'm not totally convinced that he is the mastermind behind this attack. Tho he is and has been the highest profile that's publicized by the media.

BTW, the crap comments made about BC and AG at the beginning of this thread are grossly misplaced. The reason we didn't finish many times before is because the lack of either public support and/or our allies fickleness. To think otherwise is completely blasphemous retoric. That goes for all governmental parties during a conflict, whether it's Democrat, Republican.

[Wombat]

TP,
I'm not opposed to taking action to taking out our enemies. But I think that if you put our rights on a scale vs. defending ourselves, then homefront fascism and racism are not options.

Muslims make up about 2% of the US population. That's 5 million people. Just as good as anybody else, and no more likely to be terrorists than many other possible selections you could make in this country. I bet that on average, 5 million just-about-anythings in this country are more dangerous than 5 million Muslims. Not just people: <B>US citizens</B>. Don't forget that they fall under that aegis. The are countrymen, and entitled to the rights thereof. Take their rights, yours are next.

If you were told that there was a slight chance that deporting &gt 1/2 of New York might prevent one attack, would you feel justified in drop-kicking half of that city into the ocean? That <B>is</B> terrorism.

[The PIT]

Wombat please read what I posted I said actively I never said chuck the whole lot in the sea and neither did I refer to just Muslims I referred to all terrorists or war criminals that we have harboured in Britain. Of course they would have to be tried and found guilty before any action.
I also said you have to be very careful where you draw the line on freedom of speech which you just repeated at the end of your 2nd paragraph.
Anyway I've said all I'm going to say on the subject only time will tell who is right or wrong.

[Wombat]

Sorry TP. I see what you said. I initally started replying to you, but my thoughts veered towards KvH's hateful words.

[Jorden]

Good post Mike. Let's forget about bin Laden for a moment and consider about the "what if someone else was behind it all?" question. Who is then first on your list?

We in Holland just had a scare yesterday about possible carbombs driving around and exploding in tunnels leading towards the big cities of Amsterdam and Rotterdam. Police and heavily armed military personnel closed off the tunnels for some time.

Nothing exploded offcourse, but it was scary enough.

Jord.

Oh, PS: something I have seen on CNN the past few days. Americans buying gasmasks against biological warfare... please let someone explain the uselessness of doing that !!

[Jammrock]

Jorden,

One word: Paranoid

Jammrock

[Wombat]

Jorden:

The non-bin Laden theory I read is here:

http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/fr/fr010919_1_n.shtml

[Greebe]

Chuck you have absolutely no idea what I believe for I haven't stated it to ANYONE!

Please take a chill pill and my advice above

[Wombat]

I can't come up with such a solution. You can't either. Nobody can. All of your "vaccinations" are the same things that has made us such a hated to begin with.

FWIW, I think we botched Iraq too. We should have taken him out when we could.

[Wombat]

Haters will always find some excuse to hate, sadly.

Yeah, and it tends to happen when they're called "camel-stealing towelheads" who are "desecrating our country."

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[Joel]

Wombat,

You should really take the time to read your history. "Jihad" againist the rest of the world is not something new. It has been going on since Mohammad first set foot off that mountain.

Jihad in the West
Jihad in the West, 'Muslim Conquests from the 7th to the 21st Centuries'
by Paul Fregosi
Prometheus Books, New York, 1998
Reviewed by Sharon Morad, Leeds

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Preface
(pp. 15-18)
There is a link between terrorism known as Jihad today, with wars of Muslim expansion beginning with Muhammad.
All expressions of Islam's basic distaste for the outside world.
Most Muslims claim crusades are the origin of the conflict between Islam and Christianity, but this is the wrong way around. The first crusade was in 1096 AD. Jihad had already been going on for 500 years by then.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Introduction
The Holy War that Isn't (pp. 19-27)
Definition of Jihad: not attempt to convert people to Islam by force (except maybe in the 1st century of Islam).
Rather, attempt to "expand and extend Islam until the whole world is under Muslim rule. The jihad is essentially a permanent state of hostility that Islam maintains against the rest of the world, with or without fighting for more sovereignty over more territory" (20). It is a duty, an obligation for all Muslims.
[p.22] A contrast between Christ (He who lives by the sword will die by the sword), with Muhammad (the sword is the key to heaven and hell).

Christians who kill are ignoring the words of Christ. Muslims who kill are obeying Muhammad.
[p.23] Crusades - 1096 AD until 1270 AD. An attempt to retake (formerly Christian) Palestine.

Jihad = 1,300 years. An attempt to occupy Europe, Asia and Africa, and then Islamicize them.
[p. 25] Why do we not hear of the Muslim capture of Jerusalem from the Christians in 638 AD, or of the capture of Spain about 70 years later, or of the subsequent 800 year occupation?

It was the success of Jihad against Europe that triggered Pope Urban II to call for the first Crusade in 1095 AD.

Colonialism - not exclusively western. Muslim lands colonized much of Europe in the 7th - 19th centuries, and the two colonized each other in the 19th century.

In fact Europe colonized Muslim lands for only 130 years (1830s - 1960s)!!
[p. 26] Muslims have freedom of worship in Christian lands, not vice versa (penalty of apostasy = death).

And this is just one of many sources They can't all be wrong.

Joel

[Helevitia]

I think you all suck big fat furry peaches. You should all bow down to the islam religion and accept your fate. God will take you to the heavens and give you 30 wives and 40 mistresses. Allah is the supreme ruler and the divine wisdom of truth, justice and the all being of te islamic country side. Long live god dude!
Don't forget what I said about shooting little old lady's in the back with a bazooka in a dark alley while dancing in the rain on Sunday during football season.

Dave

[Greebe]

Hey pass it this way!