What a bunch of f***ing cowards.

[Joel]

hehehe come to think of Timothy McVeigh

And he was sought out, captured, and brought to justice. We have sought out ole binny boy and we want to capture him and bring him to justice but his stooges the Taliban have refused. It's amazing that 90% of the world believes the US is justified in what it's doing but only the vocal few who are opposed makes the news. Is that called Media bias???

Joel

BTW Wombat never did answer my question.

[KvHagedorn]

That's right, we are bombing millions innocent civilians! We are killing them in vast numbers! The US is the focus of all evil in the world. We are a bunch of stupid hatemongers who just want to bully everyone.

Oh well back to writing about two photon absorption and nonlinear organic materials......

You do that.. while fundamentalist muslims blow up your tunnels and teach their children to hate and murder you in your own country using YOUR tax dollars. If they kill your family they only get 4 years in your liberal country club prisons with 4 free magazine subscriptions and TV in their private rooms for which you again foot the bill. After all, they are only poor immigrants.. they have such a hard life and are fully justified when they slit your mother's throat or blow her up in her car or poison her with serin gas. If you are the exception to the rule there and are not a spineless pacifist jellyfish whose appeasing opinions guarantee his own extinction, and you seek revenge upon this murderer when he gets out, you go to prison for life, because it is automatically a hate crime. Of course it should be obvious to anyone intelligent that white people are the only humans capable of hate. We are automatically evil hatemongers if we dont passively bend over and let Saddam sodomize us with a red hot poker, right?

There is a difference between having an opinion and committing treason. But wait, the treason party (in coalition with the spineless party) has been in full control of the Dutch government for years, now hasn't it?

[laureijs]

Originally posted by Joel


And he was sought out, captured, and brought to justice. We have sought out ole binny boy and we want to capture him and bring him to justice but his stooges the Taliban have refused. It's amazing that 90% of the world believes the US is justified in what it's doing but only the vocal few who are opposed makes the news. Is that called Media bias???

Joel

BTW Wombat never did answer my question.

That's right, he was sought out and captured, but since binny boy is protected by the taliban regime it's okay to bomb kabul??? hmmmmmm, I find it a rather difficult thing to punish the afganistan people for having a regime nobody deserves.
Although I'm generally with the worlds sentiments about this I really wonder if 90% of the world is behind the US since I bet you've never asked the Chinese and/or the Indians (people from India and NOT the first Americans)

greetz Erik

[Joel]

<A HREF="http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1101011015-178412,00.html" target=_new>Osama's Endgame!</A>

Joel

BTW We did asked them to give him up. And this is not about the Afghan people because most of them want the Taliban and ole binny boy gone too. We are doing our damned leveled best to avoid civilian casualties while at the same time trying to help them in a way their own government or ole binny boy would not or have not done.

Joel

[Pneumatic]

America does NOT intentionally target civillians. If you will notice, all of our targets have been military. The only reason that any civillians are killed is because the cowards put their military targets in or next to villages and towns. Our own reporters are within miles of the bombing. Do you think that they would be there if America was just launching random missiles into the country with no regard for where they fall?


THEY on the other hand specifically tageted our civillians with absolutely no warning. At lest they knew this was comming and were given a chance to get away form the places they knew would be bombed.


impact: The C-130 that you said is used to devistate "poor afghan villlages and innocent afghan civillians" is actually used to taget military troops and tanks that are on the move. I defy you to find one instance where a military plane from the US has actively tageted a village. I am waiting for your brilliant reply.

[The PIT]

"It's also very funny to see how we democratic western people react to someones opinion: like in dictatorial states we do NOT respect others opinion."
Mmm we do respect peoples opinion thats why people in the west are allowed to practise any religon, speak openly about creating religous hate, terrorise people etc and when someone complains about it they get called racist. This why Britian is a safe haven for many of the terrorists off the world and we got some real nasty ones living as our guests.
Anyway since Bin Laden cares so much about the poor afghans why doesn't he give himself up. The reason Bin Laden hopes this bombing will destablize the arab nations so that he can gain power himself.

[GT98]

AC-130

Lets educatate our users on the use of the AC-130 Gunship

AC-130 Gunship

There was also a really nice web page on geocities from a Crew member of the AC-130 during Vietnam, but I just tried to access it and its hit its bandwidth limitation! I guess everyone got interested after hearing about this.

Try this link
Geocities AC-130 Site

The Main reason this platform was brought in is that it offers a MORE accurate means of hitting targets then using Laser/GPS gudied bombs. They have low Light TV Cameras that allows them to pick out targets and hit them while orbiting. There was some footage of AC-130 operations in Pamana in 1989 of An AC-130 and it used its 105mm cannon to take out a APC riding down a road without totaly oberitrating the whole area!

Scott

[Jammrock]

Just finished reading the Time article:

That and a U.S. retreat. Bin Laden has repeatedly described Americans as easily scared into submission. He cites the pullout of U.S. troops from Beirut after a 1983 truck bombing there killed 241 Marines, and the withdrawal from Somalia after 18 U.S. soldiers died there. He plainly thinks a large enough number of attacks will lead the U.S. to withdraw entirely from the Arab world and even fall apart as a nation.

Interesting thought. There is a difference between US 'policing' actions and US war actions. When a 'policing' or 'aide' action goes bad the US withdrawls. Why get US military killed over some small act that the US isn't directly involved in anyway?

War actions are different. In war the US is like a mean, old, black dog with rabbies. We bite and never let go. Vietnam was a different story, but that wasn't technically a war action and it was too big to be a policing action...I won't go into details. Anyway, the US sees the actions against Islamic extremist terrorists as war, so if bin Laden thinks the US will go away quietly after a few soldiers are killed, he is sorely mistaken.

He connects the crumbling of the Soviet Union to Moscow's defeat in Afghanistan at the hands of local Muslim rebels he aided.

That may have been part of it...but not what killed the USSR. The US trained the Afghan rebels, you'd think they'd know how to fight against them.

Reading these interview quotes with bin laden makes me think of Hitler's views. Poor Jews...always being picked on...

Jammrock

[Joel]

What Osama wants short term is to get the US to leave the Middle East region so the Arabs can try once and for all to eliminate the Israel State and eradicate the Jews. They hate them that bad. They say they are tried of being humiliated by Israel, but for the most part all Israel has done is manage to prosper while the rest of the Mid East region has gone to s***. Plus they are also pissed off because Israel has managed to kick their butts on more than one occasion. There is no need for a Palestinian State. They already have one and it's called Jordan. Just read Mid East history from the 1940's. If you read the article, that I posted the link to, you also see that he feels that it is their duty (the Muslims) to possess chemical and nuclear weapons. As he puts it.

"It would be a sin for Muslims not to try to possess the weapons that would prevent the infidels from inflicting harm on Muslims."

Yet it was the US infidels that helped to liberate the Muslims when they were attacked by the Serbs.

Whereas we would think long and hard before using such weapons he would not. Sept 11th should show everyone that.
Most of the Muslim world feels that he needs to be delimited too but are reluctant to speak out openly because they are then considered infidels themselves. And according to the Islamic law, which he would like to see imposed, they would be put to death just because they dared to speak out.

If ole binny boy and his cronies had used the money to help their fellow Arabs brothers instead of being ****oles then things in the Middle East might be different. But we all know that this is not about the people or religion (that's an excuse to try to get backing) but about money and power.

Something to think about.

Joel

[Joel]

In an attempt to rally his forces, Taliban leader Mullah Mohammed Omar reportedly sent a radio message of encouragement to his commanders Wednesday, telling them God was on their side.

"Show patience and confidence, because we are waging a holy war against infidels," Omar said, according to the Afghan Islamic Press, a Pakistan-based news agency. "Life and death are both the same to us, because we want to become martyrs."

Then come out in the open and we will help you along.

Joel

[The PIT]

On brighter note a small article in our local paper is that a moderate religous leader in the taliban is talking to the us about handing over Bin Laden. However if this is true I wouldn't be surprised if he's already been killed or will be killed by the other Taliban.

[Rags]

Originally posted by laureijs



Oh well back to writing about two photon absorption and nonlinear organic materials......

Translated:
"Oh well, back to playing with myself while watching WWF."

Rags

[Bohrn]

I think I am gonna have to go with Greebe on this one

[Indiana]

Originally posted by Joel


Then come out in the open and we will help you along.

Joel

LOL

[RedRed]

I am saddened by this thread. I thaught that you guys would for the most part have more sense.

Recall your history, if you can.

Bin Laden feels he can win this, and has good reason. The USA has played this game right into his hands.

consider this, please.

1. Bin laden (and many, many in the Muslim world) feels that Isreael should not exist. Simple. Created in the 1940's, displacing hundreds of thousands of people from Jerusalem etc., to set up an American toe hold in the Middle East. Only the Jews who moved there felt otherwise. Britian opposed it, as did what was left of empire and most other stated round the world who mattered. America proved this time and again to these people by propping up israel since. (still to the tune of Billions a year, an excellent sink for the tax-dollar). I am not saying that I agree with this sentiment, but that is the feeling, however, would the french willingly give back Calais - they only lost that 400 years ago - not almost 2000!)

2. Afghanistan has been invaded many time since the times of Alexander the Great, but never taken, even by him!!! The British tried (1906)- the first time Chemical Warfare was used, BTW. The Russians tried - they probably would still have lost, despite the CIA supplying Stingers (there estimated to be in excess of 15,000 still in the country!), which, unlike the Russian AAA guns, CAN lock onto enemy or allied planes!

3. The Afghan winter is comming in. This will hit the "allies" far harder than the Afghan fighter. The allies cant stay out in ships for ever - they will need to launch a ground attack to capture Bin Laden - the american people will want him killed (they will not try to capture him).These (the Afghan) people live in a culture of fighting, most males have guns (an AK47 costs around $20 along the border). An afghan soldier looks like a civillian - will you kill all the civillians to make sure? - I think not!!!

4. He is gambling that a prolonged attack on afghanistan will enrage the other Muslim countries - and he is right - Hundreds are dead in Africa already, Pakistan (a country which america claimed was assisting Terrorists- now a buddie - DOH!) a powder keg with a coup only 2 years ago.... Indonesia, whos president just called out against the bombings.

5. Ok, so somehow the Mighty US beats the evil Talibhan - what do you do next? you still have to find Bin Laden.
What sort of Government do you put in its place? does the US do a somalia?

6. Bin laden does not believe that the US will stand for large numbers of body bags - and he is probably right in this respect.

The fact is that the war IS destabelising the region - useful for Bin Laden. Pakistan is being shafted from the rear by India too.. (both Nuclear and Chemical capable countries)

Please think about WHY these atrocities took place in the US. Those who did it had a reason, and until that reason is resolved, the like of it will happen again.

They are not powerful enough to face up to the American army.
Its not cowerdice - its a fact.

America felt its first true terrorist outrage (this Anthrax will be your second, though I pray not as bad). I think America will have many more inflicted before we are through.... (I am thinking Panama, Colombia, Peru, Iraq, Syria, Lybia (they were bombed too, and I am sure havent forgotten), Korea, the list goes on. Any of these countries harbour terrorists who could 'have a go'.


I dont mean to pi** anyone off, its just the way I see it. I have lived with a low intensity war for 35 years.


This post was far longer than I had anticipated it would be...sorry

Regards
RedRed