????????????

[spoogenet]

Of all the stupid things the US has done, this is still the worse by any measure, even worse than African slavery (blacks could vote before Native American's could).

If you think African slavery was bad in the US, it was even worse in Africa....in fact, there still is an African slave trade, albeit not nearly as big as it used to be. There are other slave trades in the world that still exist.

I think population stress is a definite factor. In any animal population, when there are too many for the environment to comfortably support, mechanisms come into play to reduce their numbers. Virulent diseases run amuck. Parents start killing their offspring, and adult individuals lash out violently against their neighbors for no apparent reason. Animals starve. Eventually the population of natural predators increases to bring things back into equilibrium. But Humans don't have any natural predators except for themselves.

Many studies have been done to confirm this. But nobody is willing to implement population control, either, so we just deal with natural population control. I think mainly because population control has a negative label of being inhumane, although I find this label to be more of a stereotype than an actual description of the various options available.

b

[GinoCyber]

No problem Kv.

Kevin:

'Anyway, it gives us some idea of where you're coming from.'

Don't feel bad. I don't lose sleep over what handles think of me on a chat forum.

Gurm:

'Gino,

You need to get a clue. I open the first of your links, and see "the company will not disclose what was in the messages", "the exact time of the messages is unknown", "the FBI will not comment", and "the employees are unnamed".'

Ok, then I open up the NEXT link. And I see a French Journalistic tagline, followed by "a Muslim leader says that..." and I'm supposed to BELIEVE this?'

Yep. Just like we're all supposed to believe GWB when he addressed the nation by saying he has enough evidence that points to bin lauden but he can't tell us. Yeah yeah national security.

'Thanks. Find me a REAL, CONFIRMED link. No rumors, no conjecture, and no propagandizing by Muslims. '

Sure. Just after you find me a real link that proves it was bin lauden. Just becuase GWB says so doesn't count.

How bout this. Every terrorist attack done against the states and others were quickly accounted for a few hours later by the terrorist group claiming responsibility. On Sept 11, it wasn't done. Not claiming and bragging about it isn't what an arab does.

Jammrock:

'Holocaust and genocide - There have been so many holocaust's and genocides throughout human civilization, it's impossible to say which one was the worse. They're all bad! But quite honestly, the Jews get picked on the most at a global level.....'

Yes they do and it is disgusting. Some people are this way becuase they think there's too much "holocaust propaganda" each year coming out of Hollywood by people like those 2 words that you mention when there's no talk about others. Put your self in someone else's shoes that went thru ethnic cleansing. All your life, you hear about redemption for the jewish victims, holocaust movies, etc and hear nothing about what happened to your brothers and sisters.

[Gurm]

Hey, all my life I have heard about how we have to be EXTRA nice to the blacks. How we have to "make amends" to them for their "inhumane treatment".

I guess a hundred years of slavery - for which they were VOLUNTEERED BY THEIR OWN LEADERS - is worse than extermination?

Gino - I don't need to prove that Bin Laden did it... but hey, there's LOTS of evidence that he did. You just don't like looking at the information available very closely. When it serves your anti-semitic propagandizing, you will dig up every Tom, Dick, and Mustafa's rhetoric and claim that it's "news". But heaven forbid that the president be RIGHT, for you to believe that might require that you actually look at some of the evidence, instead of just falling back on your usual habits of wild conjecture.

Even if we DIDN'T have lots of evidence (but we do), the actions of the Taliban and Bin Laden over the last two months are the surest indicator of their guilt.

- Gurm

[GinoCyber]

'I don't need to prove that Bin Laden did it... but hey, there's LOTS of evidence that he did. You just don't like looking at the information available very closely.'

I'm sure there is. Meanwhile, sites like these are popping up by the minute

http://www.americanfreepress.net/09_16_01/Mossad_Link_to_First_WTC_Bombi/mossad_link_to_first_wtc_bombi.html

http://www.wsws.org/news/1998/aug1998/bomb1-a27.shtml

'When it serves your anti-semitic propagandizing, you will dig up every Tom, Dick, and Mustafa's rhetoric and claim that it's "news".'

How typical. Just becuase I show some unresting info, I get labelled as anti semitic. How quickly you forget the first line on my first post in this thread.

Besides, the link I gave about the Mossad being involved was by a source David Stern, not a Mustafa.

'Even if we DIDN'T have lots of evidence (but we do), the actions of the Taliban and Bin Laden over the last two months are the surest indicator of their guilt.'

I never said it wasn't bin lauden. Again, read the first line of my first post in this thread and stop posting like you're pms'ing.

[The PIT]

Well I wouldn't take any notice of the world socialist web site as they'll come up with any old crap and the other link looks dubious when it says it against the new world order on the banner.
No doubt theres links saying it's martians that did it because there pissed off with all these probes cluttering up there landscape.
I'm also pretty sure that the rest of the world including Arab nations wouldn't be in the alliance if they haven't seen any evidance. Also it would be political sucide for any to back the actions in Afghanstan if they were bombing the wrong guy.

[Joel]

Well all I can say is that what we are seeing going on right now is just the beginning. Read the book of Revelation in the Bible.

This is just the work of the devil and his minions thinking that if they can destroy the Jews that they can somehow prevent the second coming of Christ. Because when that happens the devil will be struck down for all eternity to never bother man again and begin the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Joel

[GinoCyber]

How true Pit. There's alot of crap out there on the web which is leaving more and more suspicions as to what really happened and is there a cover up.

Sites who claim that the Mossad is behind this is growing close to 100k hits. Maybe it's true and maybe it isn't. But when these sites start giving examples of the Mossad's history, the weak minded will get influenced. This was my whole point when I first posted here playing the devil's advocate.

Yes most of these claims come from anti west web sites but they are still there in plain English for anyone to see. Run a search for wtc israel and look at the hits. All of those sites say why it was the Mossad.

Run a search on wtc and you'll get alot of hits, but you won't get 1 as to why it was bin lauden.

This is very scarey as there are plenty of weak minded people in the world.

Strangely enough, these 2 links were buried on the 19th page of the search results

http://www1.arabia.com/news/article/english/0,1690,87111,00.html

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/WO0111/S00049.htm

[Joel]

No need to prove it anymore, he's admitted to it.

http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/11/11/wbin11.xml

Joel

[GinoCyber]

Sad part is, that tape was televised 9 days ago to the arab world and is still being televised. It's also on a few sites as a real media stream. My WHOLE POINT to all this is, no matter what this tape is saying, the sites about blaming the jews is still coming up and in their own warped logic, they say that it's all justified

[The PIT]

Another sad truth is we now have in Britain two societies that mistrust each other whether any trust can ever rebuilt I don't know.
I commented in a take away that the Asians from one our local pubs have disappeared and don't come in any more since the 11th. The answer striaght away was that they had been abused, an automatic presumption as far as I'm aware they haven't, they just stopped coming in.