Northern Alliance To Take Kabul Tomorrow

[RedRed]

Rags you wrote:

Even your comments to Mordrid in this thread were filled with generalizations I am busting at the seems to counter, but I am sticking to our topic of discussion.

Could you drop me a line on the bits you want clarified about Noraid? I will consult my mate (best man at my wedding) who is Northern Ireland Political correspondant at the BBC online News Service (the name is Paul Rocks, check him out, if you like).

If I have said anything incorrect, or that you feel is in error, I will get him to QA it for us.


You can send me an email or preferably start a new thread....

Is that fair enough?

RedRed

[RedRed]

MD did you read my comments on Joel? I know your response landed in at the same moment....

[Rags]

I believe that international politics works in a simmilar way, especially where weapons of mass destruction are concerned. I dont believe that America nor the USSR nor any other country that has nukes CAN achieve all it wants to on the international stage by threatening to 'make a walmart parking lot' out of countries. I believe that yes, during the cold war, america had to willing to 'press the button', or there was no creditable threat.

Did I ever say we threatened them with nukes? Did I say we should use nukes? NO! Go back and read the freaking thread.

I do not believe that whatever bin laden did, the political world outside the US, nor any mature US politician would have seriously considered threatening nuclear strikes against ANY soveriegn state. To have done so would not have sent out the message that 'america takes care of its own', as the conventional war in afghanistan did, it would have sent out the message that it was an international bully, and in so doing I believe it would and should be censured by EVERY other country in the world, including its current allies.

I agree with you but if you are implying that I said the contrary, like I said above, go back and read it again.

The US did not need to threaten anyone. It was the injured party.

There is a fine line between threatening and listing demands.

It was why colin powell and envoy blair visited so often. You wouldnt have to do that if they where threatening the countries. You would not have the international 'allies' comming out with different statements at the start of the campaign, you would not have the Pakistan and Saudi govenments calling for a halt over Ramadan (though no need now, I guess)

State this another way, this paragraph makes no sense.

Did no one teach you as a kid that you cant lead a gang/team with threats? Leading a gang/team takes L E A D E R S H I P.

Gang? WTF are you going on about? And what on earth does this have to do with the thread or our conversation. Dude, go clear your head.

Rags

[Rags]

Originally posted by RedRed
Rags you wrote:


Could you drop me a line on the bits you want clarified about Noraid? I will consult my mate (best man at my wedding) who is Northern Ireland Political correspondant at the BBC online News Service (the name is Paul Rocks, check him out, if you like).

If I have said anything incorrect, or that you feel is in error, I will get him to QA it for us.


You can send me an email or preferably start a new thread....

Is that fair enough?

RedRed

No need to start another thread, just give me references and dates. I am interested in this myself, it will take little of your time, and I won't debate it in this thread, just looking for info.

Rags

[Joel]

To have done so would not have sent out the message that 'america takes care of its own'...

I missed a word in that statement.

Rest of my post stands.

Joel

[mdhome]

Originally posted by RedRed
MD did you read my comments on Joel? I know your response landed in at the same moment....

RedRed
Sorry writing isnt my forte and I should have made my self clearer. My comments were really directed at the horror of anyone using NBC weapons irrespective of who are on the receiving end.


regards MD

[Dr Mordrid]

Perhaps some of this stuff is cultural, particularly with the French and a few others. Even so, in my mid 20's I spent a few months in Sweden with relatives and had *no* problems dealing with those people. Epecially with the local flicka's, and I don't mean the boat

Yes, Americans are direct. Here it's the norm. Basically;

If you ask the average American something you'd better be ready for the answer, in detail. If you don't like it, deal with it.

If you PO someone you'll likely be told to go to hell and then given detailed directions

Dr. Mordrid

[RedRed]

Rags

Sorry if my post wasn’t clear. Re-Reading it, I do agree with you!

What I was trying to say was just in support of the previous paragraph…..

[QUOTE]It was why colin powell and envoy blair visited so often. You wouldn’t have to do that if they where threatening the countries. You would not have the international 'allies' coming out with different statements at the start of the campaign, you would not have the Pakistan and Saudi governments calling for a halt over Ramadan (though no need now, I guess)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


State this another way, this paragraph makes no sense.

[\QUOTE]

What I wanted to say was this.......
<snip> the reasons why I believe the US didn’t threaten anyone was because:
1. Colin Powell and americas middle east envoy Blair (joke!!!!) would not have needed to pay so many visits to get and then keep them onboard.

2. Had America been threatening the Pakistan with Armageddon, it would have made sure Pakistans story was consistent with the US one. This was not the case in the first few days of the conflict. This was reinforced a couple of weeks ago when Pakistan and Saudi Arabia asked for a halt to the bombing over Ramadan (not that that matters now, of course!!!)

America, was the injured party

Is that clearer?

With regards to the Noraid stuff.....

What details do you want? I told Mordrid that neither BUSH NOR REGAN actually paid Noraid anything. (I think he thought I said they did.....) My point was that they were left to raise funds, despite the organisation being a clearly Republican organ(in the Irish sense!).

I don’t know which dates you are looking for....

http://www.megastories.com/ireland/glossary2/noraid.htm

here

Noraid

An American support group for the Republican cause, the Irish Northern Aid Committee, to use its full name, has been accused of funding the IRA. Group leaders have always denied this, saying Noraid was set up in 1969 to provide relief for families of Republican guerrillas jailed or killed in the struggle. Its founder, Michael Flannery, was himself an IRA man back in the 1920s.

There are over 40 million Americans who claim some Irish descent. Many major cities such as Boston, New York and Chicago have large Irish communities where Irish Republicanism and anti-British feeling flourishes.

In 1977, the U.S. Department of Justice made Noraid register officially as an agent of the Provisional IRA. The group has said its funds are distributed through Sinn Fein in Dublin and the Green Cross in Belfast. In 1982, five Noraid officials were acquitted in New York of gun-running to the IRA. Flannery, one of the five, denied that he had been involved in gun-running to the IRA, but said he approved of it.

The group raised a lot of money in the early 1980s when sympathy ran high because of the Hunger Strikes. But by 1990, British minister Peter Brooke said Noraid had declined in significance as a funder of the IRA.

Just a note: the Green Cross, I come from Belfast and have never heard of it!!!

I hope that this helps....
RedRed

[The PIT]

Something to do with aid for the prisoners family apparently.

[RedRed]

aye pit.

But not really, as far as I know....

[Rags]

RedRed,

I never stated we threatened Pakistan.

Rags

[RedRed]

Rags

appologies then.
I took it from earlier in the thread when we discussed pakistan withdrawing support for the Talibhan and supporting the alliance.

I said I felt it was because of sanctions being lifted/aid given etc.... I thought you felt it was because of fear of the US.

I am sorry if I took you up wrong. The last 5 pages of this thread were a bit off track then!

RedRed

[Rags]

Originally posted by RedRed
Rags

appologies then.
I took it from earlier in the thread when we discussed pakistan withdrawing support for the Talibhan and supporting the alliance.

I said I felt it was because of sanctions being lifted/aid given etc.... I thought you felt it was because of fear of the US.

I am sorry if I took you up wrong. The last 5 pages of this thread were a bit off track then!

RedRed

You see there is a difference between knowing we will attack and us threatening them.

If you don't believe Pakistan knew we would go in and clean out their terrorists too, then you are seriously mistaken. They know very well what we would do. This doesn't mean we threatened them.

Rags