M$ at it again...

[Technoid]

As the years have progressed, I’ve seen the lengths some of these companies will go to. I’ve covered the ATI driver thing to death, so I won’t go on about that, but the concept of cheat and cover-up is pervasive. I have learned that companies pay people to monitor popular sites and newsgroups, always on the lookout for negative criticism. Most of these ‘trolls’ as people call them, not only report back to the “mother ship” but also take the time to attack posters who make negative comments about their product. You slam Windows, they come right at you with a barrage of prepared statements designed to cut you off at the knees. They seek to discredit you and undermine your arguments to help their company come out looking as good as they can.

Doesen't this sound like someone we know?

[Wombat]

I doubt that you could realy get the long uptime stats that people talk about on a Linux box that was used for a lot of different programs they way most home PCs are.

I have to disagree with that one. My roommate used Linux for everything, from programming to documenting, and his machine was up for 3 months at a time. It only went down when he had to unplug the machine.

It would also be a lot easier to have a 100% Office compatible suite for Linux if MS didn't keep a stranglehold on the document format. I'm still dumbfounded as to how they claim a need for open standards in instant messaging when they keep their own file formats so proprietary.

Then again, on the flipside, there's still no particularly good way to write PostScript in Windows.

[cjolley]

Originally posted by Wombat
...I'm still dumbfounded as to how they claim a need for open standards in instant messaging when they keep their own file formats so proprietary...

Considering the way MS has treated Java, nothing along those lines could suprise me any more.

As to the up time thing. I'm not very experienced, but, my experience is that even the kenel of Linux is not completely stable.
And I have seen it crash just surfing the web.

chuck

[Technoid]

I don't use Linux.
I use Windows.

I have tried several versions of RH....

None of them ever chrached and I did try to do nasty things to them (eventualy I usualy did the final nasty thing to them FDISK)

All flawors of windows can be made to downraight hardlock just by sufring the web by using IE.......

In Korea Linux has a 90% market...

Why?

A local wendor was first to make a distribution with the lokal lingo awailable!

Linux only looks uninviting because we are so acustomed to the cozy WinGui...

The the reason that I am dualbooting betwen w98 and w2k instead of w98/linux is more that I am to lazy to learn all quirks of a "differnt" OS than that Linux is "lesser" in anyway.....

[Wombat]

As to the up time thing. I'm not very experienced, but, my experience is that even the kenel of Linux is not completely stable.
And I have seen it crash just surfing the web.

Depends on the version of the kernel you use. You have those choices, which is very nice. You can run beta stuff, or you can run tried-and-true, or you can run old stuff with a couple new features ( like running 2.2 with the USB backport). Even when I'm running beta versions of X, and my display locks up (hey, somebody had to beta test the Matrox drivers), the rest of my machine was just fine. I could log in remotely, and the users on my ftp had no idea something had happened. Linux took the hit, and the damage was contained within the locale it hit.

[Dogbert]

All I can do is to remind you of this:

Microsoft Purchases Evil From Satan

Redmond, WA - Microsoft in a recent all cash deal has purchased evil from Satan for $2.7 billion. "We've been after Satan for some time," said CEO Steve Ballmer. "Negotiations were tough but I think both Microsoft and the Prince of Darkness are happy with this deal."
Before the purchase, Microsoft already had 15% of the evil market, now that number is closer to 100%. The Department of Justice has voiced concerns over one corporation controlling so much evil, and has begun investigations into the deal.

"We feel that there are real opportunities with evil, and that when evil is integrated it into our next generation of Windows products consumers will appreciate evil on their desktop," said Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates. "Businesses haven't been able to fully realize their evil potential. With evil integrated into Office 2001, corporations big and small will begin to see enhanced evil productivity."

"Evil is a real growing market," market strategist Frank Dresgan of Merrill Lynch said today. "Microsoft is a little late in the game, but even when they enter a market late they still tend to dominate. I think we'll see the same with evil."

"I've been dealing with Microsoft for some time," Lucifer said. "I've been at this evil thing for millions of years, and wanted a way out. I considered an IPO, but then Steve-O and Billy came along and told me about their "Evil Everywhere" plan and that was an offer I couldn't refuse."

Evil was founded by Satan close to the beginning of time. It has been growing steadily ever since, although most of the growth has come in the past five years with the development of the internet. Satan plans to retire to a small island in the Bahamas and write a column for the local newpaper.

[KvHagedorn]

As the years have progressed, I?ve seen the lengths some of these companies will go to. I?ve covered the ATI driver thing to death, so I won?t go on about that, but the concept of cheat and cover-up is pervasive. I have learned that companies pay people to monitor popular sites and newsgroups, always on the lookout for negative criticism. Most of these ?trolls? as people call them, not only report back to the ?mother ship? but also take the time to attack posters who make negative comments about their product. You slam Windows, they come right at you with a barrage of prepared statements designed to cut you off at the knees. They seek to discredit you and undermine your arguments to help their company come out looking as good as they can.

Originally posted by Technoid


Doesen't this sound like someone we know?

I was thinking the exact same thing when I read that! For shame Gurm.. how much is Billy boy paying you, hmm?

Time to storm the castle and rend the evil empire limb from limb, then a consortium of computer industry standards-setters can adopt open-source BSD as our universal OS. That's the way things should be. Nothing so sensitive as an operating system should be trusted to the greedy, power mad people at Microsoft. The company has a 336 Billion dollar market cap but it still wants to grow bigger.. it is maniacally focused upon it. How can it possibly do this without crushing the rights of everyone else in its path? We have only seen the tip of the iceberg here, trust me.

On February 20th of this year, I read a story from the Associated Press that only served to confirm my worst fears. It turns out that Windows Media Player 8, a native XP application that cannot be uninstalled by default, has been tracking the songs and movies that XP users have been playing and sending the information directly to Microsoft since the first day XP was made available to consumers. No mention of this fact was made by Bill Gates during his pro-security, pro-privacy press junket. No mention of this was made in the email he sent to all Microsoft employees and leaked to the press regarding the company-wide refocus on security and privacy. Nope, not a word. Not a single word. Not only that, their reaction is to simply change the wording of their privacy statement to avoid a conflict. They have provided no opt-out information, no way for consumers to stop the transfer of such private data. They have, in essence, said "My bad. You caught us. We'll fess up to it in our privacy policy, but we won?t stop doing it and we won?t tell you what we do with the data."

That's why I will never buy XP or even use a corporate warezed version. I don't have any tolerance for this. Wonder what else is being sent home to big brother? Passwords? Information about personal accounts? Bank balances? Credit Card numbers? I have no interest whatsoever in helping to create some Stalinesque thought policing empire, financing my own subjugation by buying their software. I'm not kidding.. I'd rather buy a Mac.

By the way, Gurm, I have no interest in how stable or unstable XP is. It's pointless to even discuss something like that when it isn't the issue anyway. Invasion of privacy.. attempts at thought control.. the very arrogance of a company that believes it can get away with such things.. these are the real issues. With your feisty personality, I would have thought you would be on my side (and the side of everyone with some sense) on this one. But you are being Microsoft's apologist, instead. Why?

[efty]

Gurm!!

Damn Gurm u broke Kvh's heart!!!

I have been using Linux since RH4.1 not a the main boot OS but for learning. The truth is that it still needs a lot of work to become a mainstream OS. Most people want functionality and ease of use. AOL's main advertising campaign constantly points out how easy it is. The truth is that Windows 9x 2000/xp are easy and functional and that is why people use them. When Linux reaches that point then it will have a chance to become mainstream.

[Gurm]

Ooh, I'm sooooo scared. Big Bad Bill might learn that I watch titty movies.

The solution is simple: DON'T USE THE DAMN INTERNET-ENABLED FEATURES OF MEDIA PLAYER.

Who uses this stuff?

Who in their right mind DOESN'T go in and disable the "please send my usage information to Microsoft" options?

*sigh*

- Gurm

[KvHagedorn]

Who in their right mind DOESN'T go in and disable the "please send my usage information to Microsoft" options?

Some poor average Joe or Josie who bought XP with their new E-machines for $499.00 and doesn't know any better. Maybe Senator Joe or Josie who doesn't know any better, and watches tittie movies (or worse), which info MS threatens to leak unless said senator votes their way. It's just the principle of the thing, and it's rotten to the core. Again, I'm wondering what your particular interest might be in defending Microsoft's behavior, Gurm.

[cjolley]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
Some poor average Joe or Josie who bought XP with their new E-machines for $499.00 and doesn't know any better....

If they can't do that, how the heck are they going to get anything working in Linux at all?
It's just not an option for most home users.
Linux is a hobby and there is no near term fix for that.
Chuck

[Gurm]

*ahem*

So this is the same person that buys DSS, then rents gay porn and is shocked that the DSS people know about it, right?

Don't like WMP8? Use WMP6.4 - it comes with the OS.

And if you don't tweak your settings before launching your dirty dirty porn, it's your own damn fault.

- Gurm

P.S. As to why I'm defending MS - I'm not. I'm simply SO sick and tired of people saying 'Ooh lookie, Big Brother Bill is out to get us!' or 'See? We told you to switch to Crapix...err...Linux' or 'I'm staying with Win95 because all the newer OS'es SPY ON ME! OH NO!'

[Paulr]

Can't really add much to this thread, looks like it's all been said
This is one of the few subjects I actually agree with Gurm on.
It very much appears that the latest fashion is to "Bash Microsoft".

If anybody has the balls to go against the bashing they are usually shot down in a "Haha, you luv Bill" or "Suspicious, why are you defending M$ then, hummm?"

I am sorry, but every time I read these threads and the MS bashing starts I actually feel embarrassed to read this site.
I start wondering why a bunch of kids have to "go with the flow" and join in the bashing.

There is just so much BS being posted on the subject of MS, most without basis of truth and most as far as I can see just jealousy - unless you are a rival company to MS I really don't see what you have to be jealous about, but that green-eyed monster seems to show itself in every post that is made.

1. MS OS's are less secure than Linux
That depends totally on definition.
Sure, the majority of flaws and/or issues are discovered on MS OS's, however when you hold some 85% plus of the market of course it is you going to be attacked - notice nobdy writes a virus for Novell, it would be a waste of everybody's time and effort.
However, when a vulnerability is found I get an e-mail telling me so.
I can download a fix/patch in a matter of seconds.
I don't have to find out if I am running the A.M or P.M release of the kernel before I can find out how or if I need to apply the patch.

2. MS OS's are less stable than others
BS.
I have Win2k servers with many months of uptime.
I have Win2k Pro & WinXP Pro workstations with equal amounts of uptime.
I have many MS OS based systems that have never seen a crash in their lives.

3. MS are spying on me
Again, totally depends on your definition of spying.
As somebody else has said many times, how many CCTV camera's do you walk past on your way to work.
Unless you take steps to stop it, anything you have on your PC will "spy" on you.
My suggestion if you truely are that paranoid, stay in your homes, never go out, disconnect your modem - it's the only way you will be 100% safe.

4. MS's business practices are so evil
So, you get to the top of the pile, you can and do look down at all your competitors crushed below.
What do you do?
"That's enough boys, we got to the top, time for somebody else".
No, you continue to fight, you continue to stay at the top of that pile.
Lets take a look at the IE issue, MS were bad, they bundled IE with their OS so it was impossible for competitors to get their browser market share.
I'm sorry, but after the release of IE 4 who exactly was the competitor?
I tell you who it wasn't, it wasn't Netscape that's for sure.
IE bundle a web browser, it's arguably one of the best on the market, a novice user doesn't have to go though the pain of downloading and installing his own and people turn on MS.

5. MS are a bunch of greedy bastards
Well hello!!
What do you want, communism?
You want everybody to be equal?
As soon as you have x amount of cash you aren't allowed to earn any more?
Of course they are greedy, this is business.
In business you are supposed to make money, more money you make the more successful you are.
Of course none of the MS or in more cases "Bill" bashers bother to note the millions of dollars contributed to charities and otehr organisations by MS and Bill himself every year.

So, if you want to be fashonable and bash MS and/or Bill.
If you want to be "kewl" and write M$ rather than MS
If you want to type Microshaft rather than Microsoft, then go for it.
But come on, all this "Must bash MS, it's kewl to do so, huhuhu" is getting a little tiresome.

[KvHagedorn]

There is just so much BS being posted on the subject of MS, most without basis of truth and most as far as I can see just jealousy - unless you are a rival company to MS I really don't see what you have to be jealous about, but that green-eyed monster seems to show itself in every post that is made.

5. MS are a bunch of greedy bastards
Well hello!!
What do you want, communism?

1.) Microsoft has no competition. Apple? Maybe.. but MS owns a lot of Apple, and Macs depend upon their software.

2.) Communism is the stifling of free enterprise. This is what Microsoft is doing.

3.) Since when do I say anything to be fashionable? You really don't read the stuff I post, do you?

4.) Damn right, I'm suspicious. When someone takes so much time and effort to defend an evil monopoly that crushes any innovation done outside their hallowed halls, you bet I'm suspicious. Capitalism, as you purport to defend, is based upon free enterprise and competition. Teddy Roosevelt understood this enough to break up the trusts 100 years ago. Today Microsoft pays lackeys like you to pacify us and not question their overlordship. They pay off government officials to not question their overlordship. Too much power usually corrupts people, and unfortunately, the way corporations work, too much power ABSOLUTELY MUST corrupt them.

You are doing everything reported here, Paulr:

I have learned that companies pay people to monitor popular sites and newsgroups, always on the lookout for negative criticism. Most of these ?trolls? as people call them, not only report back to the ?mother ship? but also take the time to attack posters who make negative comments about their product. You slam Windows, they come right at you with a barrage of prepared statements designed to cut you off at the knees. They seek to discredit you and undermine your arguments to help their company come out looking as good as they can.

And you expect to refute what they are saying by behaving exactly like the people they describe? Please try again. I don't care who's telling the truth here, whether you are Microsoft's paid apologist or that the author of that article just made that stuff up out of his own desire to slander or whatever, but there are always reasons to distrust monopolies and those who defend them.

btw, if you are not getting paid to defend them like this why not? I thought:

this is business.
In business you are supposed to make money, more money you make the more successful you are.

[Paulr]

"Microsoft has no competition. Apple? Maybe.. but MS owns a lot of Apple, and Macs depend upon their software"

And who's fault is that?
So, nobody can produce an OS to rival MS's so lets punish MS instead!
The home user has a choice, do I go for Windows, do I go for Linux.
Hummm, well it would appear the public voted, they choose Windows, naughty MS - how dare you produce such a successful product.

"You are doing everything reported here, Paulr:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have learned that companies pay people to monitor popular sites and newsgroups, always on the lookout for negative criticism. Most of these ?trolls? as people call them, not only report back to the ?mother ship? but also take the time to attack posters who make negative comments about their product. You slam Windows, they come right at you with a barrage of prepared statements designed to cut you off at the knees. They seek to discredit you and undermine your arguments to help their company come out looking as good as they can.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"

LOL
And you are how old?
I am sorry but you feel that anybody who supports Microsoft must work for them?
LOL
I'm sorry, but the more I read that quote the more I laugh.
LOL

Lets see.
I am a Systems Administrator.
I am paid to look after my companies systems.
They mainly consist of a Win2k Active Directory Network.
One that I installed from the ground up - when I arrived here there was nothing but one machine running SBS and one Linux machine acting as the Internet gateway.
Being a professional Systems Administrator I planned the massive upgrade to the netwotk from the ground up.
Nobody held a gun to my head and told me what I had to choose.
So, after much research and testing the MS Win2k network won.
It offered everything I needed and also meant that should issues/bugs be found I would have one central place where I could get the fixes.
So, after a month of testing, having the two network's running side by side, I was then able to spend a weekend moving all the systems accross.
This working fine first time and when everybody arrived at work on the Monday morning they were able to log onto the new AD Domain and work without any kind of downtime.
In the 18 months this network has been running I've had a couple of downtime issues, both stemming from hardware failures.

That is why I support MS.
Because I actually use the products on a daily basis.
I am on the front line when it comes to MS products and I'm yet to have one let me down.
I don't sit back and bash MS because as far as I can see and as far as my network shows I have got nothing to bash them about.
If you honestly feel I am a troll then fine, that is your opinion.
The fact is that I defend a product and series of products that not only do I believe in, that have proved themselves to me.