New Music anyone

[The Rock]

Im kinda with Gurm and Mordrid (loosely) on one point: there is a distinct LACK of true musician-ship (if thats a word) in music these days. They don't make em like Pink Floyd and the mighty Fleetwood Mac anymore. Too bad about that since Fleetwood Mac are ****ing BRILLIANT (The Dance has to be the best live disc I EVER heard).

Bart

[Gurm]

My brother-in-law considers Pink Floyd to be the best band ever. He feels that they are life-altering and amazing and...

HE HAS NEVER SEEN THE WALL.

And... he has never heard ANY of the Waters material other than what gets radio play (Dark Side of the Moon, Another Brick in the Wall part 2, etc.) - so when he says "what's your favorite Floyd song ever"? And all his friends are saying "Wish You Were Here" or "Learning to Fly", I respond:

Well, it really depends. Long format? Nothing beats Atom Heart Mother. But for a single song, I'd really have to go with "Several Species of Small Furry Animals Sitting in a Cave and Grooving With a Pict".

And they look at me like I have 8 heads. *sigh*

-------------------

BuddMan:

If I feel that it is musically bankrupt, it IS musically bankrupt. Notice I didn't say whether I ENJOY Sublime or not? I get a kick out of a couple Sublime songs, despite the fact that they are ... well ... shit musically.

As for the reason you like it... there is a SLIGHT possibility - VERY SLIGHT - that you really enjoy an insipid, horrible band enough to mention them in a thread like this simply because you heard their music and thought they were wonderful. But the substantially more likely reason is that everyone else in a particular social strata feels that it's amazing, it got a lot of radio play, and... well, you know the rest.

- Gurm

[BuddMan]

Where I am from they never played Sublime on the radio. I came from a town of 1200 people, so I had a pretty sheltered life growing up. I went a friend's house one day when I was 15 and he played one of their songs on guitar. Didn't sing it, didn't say anything about it but that it was a Sublime song. I loved it. I bought the CD soon afterwards and enjoyed the CD. I didn't know what the lyrics meant, didn't care. I just liked the music. Again, it was the music. Just because you think it's shit doesn't mean it is.

P.S. I just noticed some questions you were asking about the Hayden thing. I am surprised that you didn't know what tuning up a guitar meant since you've played for 15 years. He tuned all of the strings really high to make them tight, and then threw it down the stairs. He then actually plays the guitar all busted up in the song.

[SpiralDragon]

yeh Several Species of Small Furry Animals Sitting in a Cave and Grooving With a Pict is quite good.... and i too concider floyd "life-altering " and even mind-altering....... hasnt seen the wall ?!? too bad.. its one of my favorit films aswell...... i have both the DVD and VHS versions of it......... never loan them to anyone....

[Gurm]

No, I simply objected to the term "tuned way up".

"I tuned it way up and tossed it down the stairs..."

Yeah ok. I could say I frenged it real weird, and tossed it out the window. Doesn't make it meaningful. If it's out of tune, it's out of tune.

And when I say it's shit, I mean it's shit MUSICALLY. And I stand by it. If you enjoy it, great. Some people enjoy being pissed on, even get off on it. Doesn't mean it isn't gross and unsanitary.

There we go, Ralf. Let's start with Bach, move up through Mozart (*sigh* gotta love Wolfy-boy), and proceed to ... well, not what passes for "muzik" nowadays.

- Gurm

[BuddMan]

Again Gurm, that's just your opinion. Musically I don't think it's shit. Say all you want, but the music is good IMO.

And sorry I forgot the "it" when I said tuned way up, but I think you knew what I meant.

[Gurm]

Oh... "tuned it way up"! Yes, I was purposely misunderstanding you. I confess.

And I will beg to differ again. You can LIKE the music if you want. But musically it's crap. Remember, I'm not saying it's crap by any standard other than pure musical analysis.

- Gurm

[BuddMan]

And again it's your opinion.

[Gurm]

Dude, if it isn't real chords, it's not music. I can bang on a piano and CALL it music, but it isn't music without fulfilling certain prerequisites. Why are you having so much trouble understanding this? Sonic Youth claims to make "music". They also claim to have invented "new chords". Sorry, can't be done. All the chords have already been made. Their "new chords" are noise. Perhaps it's art. Perhaps not. But it IS NOT MUSIC.

Sublime tried to make actual music. They failed to make GOOD music. They succeeded in having a melody, most of the time. They used mostly real chords, and stayed mostly in tune. The irritating squealy-noise is a minus. The extensive re-use (and butchery) of other people's tunes is another minus. The incomprehensibility... a minus. The fact that they change tempo without warning, or that the drummer will change without the guitarist being informed... BIG minus.

Dude, I understand that you like them. More power to ya. But don't claim that they're musically talented. 'Cuz they ain't.

- Gurm

[BuddMan]

Again, that's your opinion Gurm. We could go round and round about this, but that's what it boils down to. I think musically they are talented, no matter how simple or obscure the music is. You don't think they are talented. Good for you. If some people call banging on a piano music and truely enjoy it, then I'd agree that it's music, even if I don't enjoy it. Playing a simple Em chord once on a guitar is musical talent Gurm....

[agallag]

Gurm, you really should give Underworld and Massive Attack a listen. It really is good music. Very complex layering, good beats, and I believe it complies with all your requirements for being "Music".

By the way, this is coming from someone who owns every Floyd studio album in existance. I even bought Ummagumma twice, since my first copy was stolen My personal favourite is Echoes from Meddle. In fact, both of those groups mentioned above have a very Echoes feel to them at times...

[Gurm]

I'm just saddened that Buddman is refusing to get it.

I'm not talking about how enjoyable it is. But his assertion that if people CALL banging on a piano music, that he will agree with them whether he likes it or not... speaks volumes.

I can't argue with that sort of mentality. Go look music up in the dictionary. Please. As "Big Guy" would say... "Oh, for the love of Pete!"

- Gurm

[BuddMan]

Ok, time for some copy and pasting:

mu·sic [myzik ] noun

1. sounds that produce effect: sounds, usually produced by instruments or voices, that are arranged or played in order to create a pleasing or stimulating effect

2. art of arranging sounds: the art of arranging or making sounds, usually those of musical instruments or voices, in groups and patterns that create a pleasing or stimulating effect

3. type of music: music of a particular type, for example, of a particular place or time, for a particular instrument, of a particular style, or appealing to a particular group rock-and-roll music

4. written music: written notation on paper indicating the pitch, duration, rhythm, and tone of notes to be played

5. pleasing sound: any sound or group of sounds that is pleasing or stimulating the music of the wind in the trees

6. group: a group of musicians (archaic)

Also, another definition - Music: artful arrangement of sounds across time. This definition is obviously very broad, but a narrower one would exclude too much. Music is part of virtually every culture on Earth, but it varies widely among cultures in style and structure. Definitions of music can change dramatically over a short time, as they have across the world during the 20th century.


A lot of people will have their opinion on what exactly these definitions mean, and it's obvious that yours and my opinion on the subject differ. But nonetheless an interesting discussion.

[Gurm]

Sorry, I'm coming from a "music theory" background. Music is melody combined with chords, which have progressions. There are rules. There are conventions. Break the conventions, but not the rules.

From THIS background, Sublime sucks. They're second-rate reggae. Marley was great. The Toyes are good. Sublime is... *sigh* just bargain-bin-quality.

- Gurm

[BuddMan]

But that's "theory" Gurm and not set in stone. I know what you're getting at though as I've taken many music courses too. It still doesn't establish that Sublime is not musically talented. I don't classify their music as straight up reggae. It's a mix of ska, punk rock, and reggae.