Montgomery county shootings....

[Dr Mordrid]

Originally posted by az
AFAIK, automatic guns were outlawed some time ago, weren't they?

AZ

Depends on what you call an "automatic". Here a full-auto is a machine gun while a semi-auto is a weapon that fires with each trigger pull by using recoil, spring or gas operated reloading mechanisms.

A double action revolver, which uses mechanical mechanisms to rotate a cylindrical magazine with each trigger pull, does not classify as an "automatic" even though an experienced shooter can fire 6 shots in <10 seconds. A revolver that has to be cocked to fire each shot is a single action.

Here in the US you can own a fully automatic weapon, meaning a machine gun, with the proper ATF license...but that only amounts to only a few hundred people nationwide, mainly collectors and dealers who sell to collectors.

Semi-autos rifles can be purchased by anyone who passes the criminal background check alluded to earlier for any gun purchase.

Pistols are another matter and one has to go through a more intrusive background check with a longer waiting period. Once approved the the same license will let you purchase either a revolver or a semi-auto pistol. The most common semi-autos purchased are .22 LR (mostly target), 9mm, .357 magnum, .44 magnum and various .380's (Walther, Llama etc).

If you can carry a pistol on your person or not depends on the state. The vast majority of states now have concealed carry laws which allow someone who passes muster on an even more intrusive background check to carry a pistol on their person.

CC laws first started becoming popular many years ago in Florida. Several European toruists and Floridians were attacked and killed both in public and in their homes. Soon public pressure mounted to allow individuals to protect themselves since the police can't be everywhere at once.

Once their CC law was passed violent crimes against individuals went down in a matter of months and stayed that way. Other states followed suite with similar results. The number of accidental and in-family shootings did not go up, contrary to the panic campaigns of the CC opponents. Michigan just passed its concealed carry law last year.

Perhaps the most telling stat is the homicide rates. In states with restrictive gun laws the homicide rate is 49% higher than in those with concealed carry laws.

Basically restrictive gun laws assure the bad guys that hardly anyone else is armed, so they can do as they will out on the streets.

In CC states some granny might pull a magnum and blow the bad guys head off. This, it has been shown, has a certain restraining effect on their behavior

Dr. Mordrid

[az]

Sorry, I didn't want this to turn into a discussion about gun laws again

I just wanted to point out that weapons are so common in your society that theoretically many people qualify for this sort of thing, not just terrorists. There are just "normal" psychopaths, too, and they don't vanish just because of 9/11. Who knows, maybe it's even some idiot feeling "inspired" by the media fuss about that supposed al quaeda training vid, maybe he thinks that now he can get his "revenge" or whatever and blame osama.

I guess I just don't like prejudice (hope this is the right word here..)

AZ

[Dr Mordrid]

It's possible that this is a thrill killer, but even members of the Justice Dept. are now moving towards the idea that it could be terrorists.

Dr. Mordrid

[az]

Everything COULD be terrorists. But terrorists WANT their adversaries to fear them, to suspect them behind every corner, and if I lived in the USA, I would not give in to scare tactics.

Good night for tonight - I'm falling off my chair, need some sleep

AZ

[RichL]

I would have thought if it was a terrorist armed with a semi-automatic rifle, he wouldnt have stopped at just one person a time. Not when he could have easily put a bullet or two into the boys aunt as well. Or put a dozen rounds at random into a crowded classroom which is bound to kill someone.

Sounds rather like some whacko who wants to be some sort of a hunter.

[Dogbert]

There are 2 main possibilities:

1. Thrill killer - There as many reasons to believe it's a thrill killer as there are different kinds of psychosis.

2. Some kind of terrorist. And no, they don't really need to advertise anything. They just kill a random person every day WITHOUT BEING CAUGHT and instead of panicking the people buying in one mall, he's panicking a whole state. This guy already has all the advertisment he wants/needs.


Whichever it is. It's an act of terrorism. I do hope he'll get shot by some angry granny with a big barrel gun and stay severely crippled for the rest of his miserable life.

[thop]

it seems this guy knows how to use a weapn, so far he killed almost every of his victims with one shot. and since nobody saw him so far he probably did so from a distance.
this guy seems to be well trained. the question is where and by who?

[Jammrock]

If the sniper stuck around for more than 1 or 2 shots, then people could try and discern the location of the sniper before he could escape. Whoever the killer is there are some certainties:

1) He is an expert marksman.

2) He is extremely versed in military level sniper tactics.

3) He is therefore highly trained by a military. There is a sliver of a chance that he is not military trained, but that is EXTREMELY small.

4) He is smart. He/them have an entire state looking for them and they have completely avoided suspicion.

My bet is that the killings will stop for a while. The sniper will then continue with a one day event like the 6 shots, 5 kills in an outlying area and then vanish again. This will continue until he gets bored or caught.

My bets are also that the sniper was not the person in the white van/truck that was speeding away. With the level of tactics and skill that he has, he wouldn't be dumb enough to call attention to himself by spinning out and speeding away. Unless it was a stolen vehicle and it has been since desposed of properly.

Basically, I feel the US needs to send in undercover special ops to catch the special ops killer...

Jammrock

[Dr Mordrid]

Exactly. Whoever this is either has sniper training or has read up on the subject.

The use of a highly accurate weapon from long range has just one purpose: getting away to be able to do it again. This isn't something the typical "thrill killer" does but it is standard military tactics. Not broadcasting the usual claims of responsibility adds to the uncertainty, which is just what a true terrorist would want. Don't forget that nobody called in a responsibility claim for 9/11 or the anthrax attacks either.

This will only be broken if someone turns him in, if he gets caught in the act or if a bullet casing is left behind with a fingerprint on it that is on file.

Dr. Mordrid

[Dogbert]

Originally posted by Jammrock


3) He is therefore highly trained by a military. There is a sliver of a chance that he is not military trained, but that is EXTREMELY small.

4) He is smart. He/them have an entire state looking for them and they have completely avoided suspicion.

3 or 4 is enough by itself. You don't need both options and my bet is on option 4. He did train at sniping but he doesn't have to be military.
You find a good spot to hide, you take your shot and then either you leave immediately or you wait for a while and leave. He could leave his gun at the hiding spot, leave and come for it later.

[Dr Mordrid]

My guess is that he's using a van or that white delivery truck and shooting from a window or port that allows him to be hidden. Otherwise I think someone would have seen the gun long ago and called it in.

Dr. Mordrid

[Dogbert]

Unless there's more than one guy involved and someone does the distraction.

[thop]

how far can a not moving object be max. away so that for a well trained person (as this one seems to be) there is a good chance to hit it with a sniper gun?
another thing: how loud is the sound it makes?

[Dogbert]

Many years ago, when Israel and Jordan were in war (not the cold cease fire of the years before the peace), a Jordan sniper used to maim Israeli soldiers (bullet in the spine) from about a mile away.

[Wombat]

The record for a sniper kill is 2430 meters, on the second shot, by a Canadian marksman in Afghanistan. That was a .50 cal shot though, and these smaller calibers won't go nearly that far.

At long distances, your target is dead before the sound gets to them.