The Economy.....

[K6-III]

Because the media says it is.....

Isn't it obvious???

[mutz]

...I'm under the impression that the mass of private and corporate wealth the world over despises politics, politicians and for that matter governments. They find a good port for a storm, mend their sails, dump anything they consider unnecessary overboard and set back to sea when the wind and the current is favorable.

They survive and they grow and don't say much. Their view is something like that astronaut who looked out window on his first flight and said " I don't see any borders."

What's Utwig's line? Getting on with business? Thank god somebody does, or we'd all be in far deeper trouble.

[Joel]

...I'm under the impression that the mass of private and corporate wealth the world over despises politics, politicians and for that matter governments.

I don't think it is that they despise governments in general because they do understand that government has it's place but they do despise a government that believes that they should take away from those who have worked hard to get what they have and give it away to those that are perfectly able but unwilling to do anything to earn their own.

Joel

[Wulfman]

speaking of the media:

here in austria the association for placard-ads started a combined placard / TV spot campain: "Die Nichtraunzerzone".

even some germans won't understand the term - it means something like "non-whiner-zone" - and should show people that their talking can affect the economy - if everybody says that the situation is bad, it will be bad. or will get worse...

mfg
wulfman

[mutz]

...perhaps disdain or contempt would be a better word. They regard politicians as transient opportunists and governments as transient too. Many are families and corporations that have been around in one form or the other for hundreds of years. They regard themselves as benefactors, be it directly or indirectly, as decrease or increase of their billions has little relevance for their personal well being. Whatever they do or don't do, hundreds of thousands to millions will have something to eat. Some are quite wise and some aren't. It's like one of the laws of physics. A body in motion tends to stay in motion. The bigger the body, the greater the momentum.

[mutz]

Whatever, I don't think GT got what he was asking for. In the past there have been some fundamentals that analysts and economists could count on, but that seems to be much less the case now. We seem to be moving into new territory with new values. The scope and the speed of electronics and media has brought a new volatility and the possibility for individuals to act more independently. It may take some time to wisen up and settle down.

[Umfriend]

Any suggestions/comments if/when its gonna turn around?

fr8 not...

As for going after Iraq, his support of terrorism is a threat to world peace

Could anyone hand me a link to find how, when and where Iraq supported terrorism (outside of possible support to palestinians and domestic)?

From a humanitarian point of view, IMHO, there where reasons enough to topple Saddam even prior to the gulf war (chemical warfare against Iran for instance, when (as I believe) Iraq and the US were still close buddies, or the massacres among its own population. I am still amazed at the stong stance the US is now "all of a sudden" taking towards Iraq (but then, what do I know).

The whole point of the UN is to "keep the peace" and it has certainly failed in that aspect.

The UN is doing a lot of good things actually. It's just ineffective at policing violent, aggressive nations. No other country or organisation has been more succesful in the past though.

I'm not sure if the goverment can do much more to help out the economy.

A lot of ppl believe, and I am one of them, that government can not help the economy, only screw it up. Abandoning bad policies could then "help" but onyl to the extent that it may cure what it caused. Exceptions to this are few, like investing in infrastructure, education etc, but these do not work within 6-12 months.

corporate scandals involving fake profits & such. This one IMHO is one that is causing most of the problems as investors are on the sidelines

This is very very true. Just goes to show that not all that goes wrong is directly to blame on governements.

of course the tech market went into the tank when the Feds decided to go after Microsoft

I think it will be very hard to show this is true (and I for one do not believe this). Can you add some substance to this statement?

Conclusion: People as a collective are morons and in a way, deserve being treated as such

Sounds smart, but the thing is, nobody want to be treated as a collective, only as an individual.

Actually the economy in the US under the current administration is a reflection of policies implimented in the previous administration. Just look at how good things were during Clinton's first four years but how things started going downhill during his second term.

I find this amazing. Economies fluctuate. At all time there will be a government in place. Just noting that during a bad period this or that government was in place makes no sense, because it fails to actually show the dependency of the economy, and the downfall thereof, on policies implemented at that time. Show me the relation please.

So tell me again why democracy is a good idea?

Maybe it's not. You know a better one (aside from making Umfriend Supreme Ruler of the Universe

they do despise a government that believes that they should take away from those who have worked hard to get what they have and give it away to those that are perfectly able but unwilling to do anything to earn their own.

Yeah, taxes are shit, right? When I have some time, we can do this in a seperate thread. Just one question, how much is taken away from you and how much of that is given to those that are able but unwilling? Who are they? (Oops, that's 3 Qs....)

In the past there have been some fundamentals that analysts and economists could count on, but that seems to be much less the case now. We seem to be moving into new territory with new values

Same thing was said when we were in the Bull market of the "New Economy" (invented by Gore as I am told ). I'd say current situation (aside from 9/11, fraude scandals etc) also shows that this New Economy wasn't supported by the real economy. Current situation, I think, reflects the "old" values that have always "ruled". Prob is, Gov can't do a lot....

Longest useless post I ever wrote methinks.

Umf

[Umfriend]

hmmm, seems I pretty much killed off this thread..... Actually found it got interesting after I read my post here....

Umf

[mutz]

...don't go away. We're just busy chasing lurkers and shooters, plus pot shots at Saddam Hussain.

What you've outlined there is pretty good. I've just got another slant on things out of experience.

Business:

Any good CEO listens intently to his CFO and works along with his geeks. He respects his shareholders and accepts mutual challenges with his Board. He's aware of his competence and watches that he doesn't exceed it. He's got the courage to see his mistakes, learn from them and correct them. He communicates honestly above him and below him. He knows his well being is derived out of the well being of his people and his company. He's hired for his experience and qualifications. His first motivation is the joy of the job. He knows when he's out of his depth, as well as when to take a vacation.

Government:

Your turn...

[Umfriend]

Okidokie, as soon as I am back from holiday. I'll be gone for a week. I could actually fill that in for ya. Dutch Gov just started a series of commercials on how gr8 it is to work as a civil servant (is that the right term) because of the important issues that one would be dealing with.

But then... it's an advertisement (reminds me of the joke about St. Peter and Bill Gates..)

Umf