Question: How would your country react if

[Dr Mordrid]

Don't mistake my use of Al Qaeda as it being a single organization.

Al Qaeda is in fact more of a holding company headed up by the money man: UBL, who doles out resources & logistics to those affiliate organizations (ie: that group in Indonesia, Abu Sayef in the Phillipines etc) who submit acceptable plans for terrorist acts.

As such when I refer to Al Qaeda I'm referring to the entire network.

Dr. Mordrid

[K6-III]

Don't forget the rebels in Chechnya....part of the very same organization, who we but last year were calling "freedom fighters"....

[Wombat]

They may still be freedom fighters. The news from Chechnya has been slim here lately, althrough I heard something about Russia planning to invade Georgia or some other neighboring country because "terrorists" were supposedly hiding there.

[K6-III]

Actually, that may be the reason they'll give to the world, but the real reason would be that the US is fighting terrorists there as well, by training Georgian soldiers and providing equipment to "fight terrorism" and to provide protection for the oil piplines in the region, which the US wants to isolate Russia from.

This is all about the oil....

[Dr Mordrid]

The US troops in Georgia are there to help them train to fight spillover terrorists coming from Chechnya, some portion of which are Al Qaeda or have backing from same. To the extent that this suceeds it's to Russias advantage and hardly a move to "isolate" them.

This from the CFR (Council on Foreign Relations) webpage on these events;

"Vladimir Putin has reacted calmly, saying that the presence of U.S. troops (in Georgia) is “no tragedy” for Russia. “If this is possible in Central Asia, why not in Georgia?” "

This explains the whole story;

http://www.terrorismanswers.com/havens/georgia.html

IMHO I've never objected to the Russians taking after the Chechen rebels and their Al Qaeda buddies, especially given the terrorist attacks on Russian cities.

The main problem in OUR policy regarding Chechnya was that the Clintonistas didn't seem to have a clue as to what was really going on there and the threat it posed to Russias southern flank.

It figures though as they never were that swift at foreign policy else we would have gone after Al Qaeda, UBL & Co. right after the WTC bombing in 1993, but no.....we had to have the "everything is wonderful" Presidency

Dr. Mordrid

[The PIT]

Originally posted by KRSESQ
A legitimate Resistance Movement does not target civilians. Only military targets. Even Che Gueverra knew that.
Kevin

Thats my viewpoint Kevin.

[Dogbert]

Spiral,

One little difference applies here:
All people kidnapped (3 soldiers and 1 civilian) were kidnapped from OUTSIDE Lebanon. 3 from undisputed Israeli territory (while breaking agreements with the aid of the UN, with no action from the Lebanese government who's supposed to be in charge) and 1 civilian from abroad.
On the other hand, the Lebanese being held captive in Israel (Dirani and Obayed) are seeing UN and Red Cross officials all the time.
Since the Hizbolla is being supported by the Lebanese government and the Lebanese people (at least in south Lebanon) they do hold responsibility. If in doubt, at the ceremony of officially opening the pumping station at the wazanni, Nasralla and Khariri are there together.

[GNEP]

Doc M:

I see no real parallels with 1939 here. This is a new and different situation. As a peace-prefering person I always find it difficult to find/give examples where an attitude of appeasement has prevented/reduced further bloodshed than the alternative. Firstly, because we tend not to run continuously branching histories in simulation that are both real and can be compared; and Secondly because the result of successful negotiations for peace are more often a fizzling out of tension, which is less easily as newsworthy/of such historical interest than full-out war or fighting.

gnep

[Dr Mordrid]

If you can't see the parallel with 1939 then any further discussion is hopeless, as is your philosophy when applied to people who have no desire to comprimise.

They want our civilization, religions, lifestyles and values to disappear from the face of the Earth and are willing to encourage their children to commit suicide in order to accomplish those goals.

How do you "negotiate" with that? You don't.

Dr. Mordrid

[GNEP]

Fair enough... I declare all hope lost!

[The PIT]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
They want our civilization, religions, lifestyles and values to disappear from the face of the Earth and are willing to encourage their children to commit suicide in order to accomplish those goals.

How do you "negotiate" with that? You don't.

Dr. Mordrid

I suppose we all become Muslims and then go around killing people the local religous nut decides is an infidel that week.

[Dogbert]

Forgot the witch hunts ?

[Joel]

All hope is not lost but it is going to be hard to acheive until the people themselves stand up to their leaders, both governmental and religious, and these extremist and say enough is enough to this path of destruction that they are being lead down.

Joel

[GNEP]

Just been to confer with my historian buddies. To sum up our discussion regarding the lack of parallels between 1939 and now:

Appeasement towards Hitler (which according to a mate involved JFK's dad - but I am not US-bashing here, just being wishy-washy liberal ) was based on a treaty obligation not to invade (You may have heard the quote "I have in my hand a piece of paper"), which was then abrogated by seizure of Poland hence drawing us (UK) into war.

We are yet to see a piece of paper from Saddam promising not to attack, but the Bush/Blair attitude towards Iraq appears to me that of a pre-emptive strike. Which is a bit like the one Hitler used on Russia in 1941.

So OK, there are some parallels (I concede that) - but not the ones that you are claiming Doc M. However, as ever I really do sincerely want to understand the arguments from another side - but please bear with me as I am not sure that I am fully there yet!

Thanks

Gnep

[Dr Mordrid]

I agree but the problem is that most of these populations are both xenophobic and reluctant to challenge the status quo. Wonderful....

Dr. Mordrid