World Peace

[Liquid Memory]

Thats what the government and the oil companies want you to think.

[Sasq]

Umm no, thats what doing physics experements in the lab teaches you.

If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, quaks like a duck, its probably a duck

[Greebe]

and if it smells like dog shit, feels like dog shit and tastes like dog shit it's definitely Liquid Memory

[Liquid Memory]

As far as I know they don't use any solid fuel at all. The 2 big tanks are filled with hydrogen and Oxygen. 1 tank is hydrogen, and the other tank is oxygen. The only reason for the oxygen is to help fuel the fire, with that much thrust if there wasn't any oxygen mixed in the fuel, it would eat up all the oxygen in the area and put itself out.

Here are some ways to split water.

Producing Hydrogen

Hydrogen bound in organic matter and in water makes up 70% of the earth's surface. Breaking up these bonds in water allows us produce hydrogen and then to use it as a fuel. There are numerous processes that can be used to break these bonds. Described below are a few methods for producing hydrogen that are currently used, or are under research and development.

Most of the hydrogen now produced in the United States is on an industrial scale by the process of steam reforming, or as a byproduct of petroleum refining and chemicals production. Steam reforming uses thermal energy to separate hydrogen from the carbon components in methane and methanol, and involves the reaction of these fuels with steam on catalytic surfaces. The first step of the reaction decomposes the fuel into hydrogen and carbon monoxide. Then a "shift reaction" changes the carbon monoxide and water to carbon dioxide and hydrogen. These reactions occur at temperatures of 392° F (200 ° C) or greater.

Another way to produce hydrogen is by electrolysis. Electrolysis separates the elements of water—H and oxygen (O)—by charging water with an electrical current. Adding an electrolyte such as salt improves the conductivity of the water and increases the efficiency of the process. The charge breaks the chemical bond between the hydrogen and oxygen and splits apart the atomic components, creating charged particles called ions. The ions form at two poles: the anode, which is positively charged, and the cathode, which is negatively charged. Hydrogen gathers at the cathode and the anode attracts oxygen. A voltage of 1.24 Volts is necessary to separate hydrogen from oxygen in pure water at 77° Fahrenheit (F) and 14.7 pounds per square inch pressure [25° Celsius (C) and 1.03 kilograms (kg) per centimeter squared.] This voltage requirement increases or decreases with changes in temperature and pressure.

The smallest amount of electricity necessary to electrolyze one mole of water is 65.3 Watt-hours (at 77° F; 25 degrees C). Producing one cubit foot of hydrogen requires 0.14 kilowatt-hours (kWh) of electricity (or 4.8 kWh per cubic meter).

Renewable energy sources can produce electricity for electrolysis. For example, Humboldt State University's Schatz Energy Research Center designed and built a stand-alone solar hydrogen system. The system uses a 9.2 kilowatt (KW) photovoltaic (PV) array to provide power to compressors that aerate fish tanks. The power not used to run the compressors runs a 7.2 kilowatt bipolar alkaline electrolyzer. The electrolyzer can produce 53 standard cubic feet of hydrogen per hour (25 liters per minute). The unit has been operating without supervision since 1993. When there is not enough power from the PV array, the hydrogen provides fuel for a 1.5 kilowatt proton exchange membrane fuel cell to provide power for the compressors.

Steam electrolysis is a variation of the conventional electrolysis process. Some of the energy needed to split the water is added as heat instead of electricity, making the process more efficient than conventional electrolysis. At 2,500 degrees Celsius water decomposes into hydrogen and oxygen. This heat could be provided by a solar energy concentrating device to supply the heat. The problem here is to prevent the hydrogen and oxygen from recombining at the high temperatures used in the process.

Thermochemical water splitting uses chemicals such as bromine or iodine, assisted by heat. This causes the water molecule to split. It takes several steps—usually three—to accomplish this entire process.

Photoelectrochemical processes use two types of electrochemical systems to produce hydrogen. One uses soluble metal complexes as a catalyst, while the other uses semiconductor surfaces. When the soluble metal complex dissolves, the complex absorbs solar energy and produces an electrical charge that drives the water splitting reaction. This process mimics photosynthesis.

The other method uses semiconducting electrodes in a photochemical cell to convert optical energy into chemical energy. The semiconductor surface serves two functions, to absorb solar energy and to act as an electrode. Light-induced corrosion limits the useful life of the semiconductor.

Biological and photobiological processes use algae and bacteria to produce hydrogen. Under specific conditions, the pigments in certain types of algae absorb solar energy. The enzyme in the cell acts as a catalyst to split the water molecules. Some bacteria are also capable of producing hydrogen, but unlike algae they require a substrate to grow on. The organisms not only produce hydrogen, but can clean up pollution as well.

Recently, research funded by the U.S. Department of Energy has led to the discovery of a mechanism to produce significant quantities of hydrogen from algae. For 60 years, scientists have known that algae produce trace amounts of hydrogen, but have not found a feasible method to increase the production of hydrogen. Scientists from the University of California (UC), Berkeley, and the U.S. DOE's National Renewable Energy Laboratory found the key. After allowing the algae culture to grow under normal conditions, the research team deprived it of both sulfur and oxygen, causing it to switch to an alternate metabolism that generates hydrogen. After several days of generating hydrogen, the algae culture was returned to normal conditions for a few days, allowing it to store up more energy. The process could be repeated many times. Producing hydrogen from algae could eventually provide a cost-effective and practical means to convert sunlight into hydrogen.

Another source of hydrogen produced through natural processes is methane and ethanol. Methane (CH4) is a component of "biogas" that is produced by anaerobic bacteria. Anaerobic bacteria occur widely throughout the environment. They break down or "digest" organic material in the absence of oxygen and produce biogas as a waste product. Sources of biogas include landfills, and livestock waste and municipal sewage treatment facilities. Methane is also the principal component of "natural gas" (a major heating and power plant fuel) produced by anaerobic bacteria eons ago. Ethanol is produced by the fermentation of biomass. Most fuel ethanol produced in the United States is made from corn.

The United States, Japan, Canada, and France have investigated thermal water splitting, a radically different approach to creating hydrogen. This process uses heat of up to 5,430°F (3,000°C) to split water molecules.

[Greebe]

Hey genius you know why they dropped the all Hydrogen and Oxygen engine design like that of the Saturn V rocket and are now using SRB (Solid Rocket Boosters) on the shuttle... cuz it's too freakin expensive and takes alot longer to make the amount neccessary to launch as many flights as they do today.

How about taking a class on the subject sometime... or at least watch a bit more TLC, PBS, THC, or Discovery channel sometime

Geesh

[Liquid Memory]

Ok, yes they use solid booster rockets which weigh approximately 2.6 million pounds fully fueled, and only propel it to about 150 miles before dropping off. I wasn't talking directly about the Association of the liftoff of the space shuttle, I was talking about the use of Hydrogen as a fuel.

[Greebe]

Bwahahahahahahaha you've be the most clueless dumbshit I've yet encountered on these forums

Anyone else wanna vote him for the Darwn Award of the week?

Please by all means give US all something more to laugh at you for

[DGhost]

you do realise just how horribly bad things can go if those two tanks just manage to explode.... mmm, challengeriffic...

oh, and btw... on the shuttle a majority of the thrust provided to get it out of orbit is supplied by reusable solid booster rockets... solid as in brick sort of solid, not liquid... there is still liquid hydrogen/oxygen provided, but the tanks simply fuel the space shuttle while it provides auxilary thrust as its going into orbit...

[Sasq]

Last i checked water isn't classified as a CFC, I may have missed something tho

[DGhost]

Originally posted by Greebe
Bwahahahahahahaha you've be the most clueless dumbshit I've yet encountered on these forums

Anyone else wanna vote him for the Darwn Award of the week?

Please by all means give US all something more to laugh at you for

i vote that he trys it and records it... that way we have proof for the darwin award people...

[Greebe]

hehe

[Sasq]

Now I get it, lm is a first year uni student with no idea what to write for his term paper. so he's getting us to do the research for him.

[KRSESQ]

Pay attention, class. Its Spaceflight 101:

The Saturn V rocket used kerosene/liquid oxygen fuel in the F1 first stage engines. The J2 engines in the second and third stage used liquid hydrogen/liquid oxygen.

The Space Shuttle's main engines burn liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen fuel. The LH/LO fuel is stored in that big-ass main fuel tank strapped to the Shuttle's belly. These engines do not produce enough thrust to lift the shuttle, so the Solid Rocket Boosters, fueled by what is basically powdered aluminum in an oxydizing base, do most of the heavy lifting. Once those babies fire, the Shuttle is committed to flight. There's no shutting them down.

All that aside, and for the record, I'm all for converting as much of our petroleum-fueled infrastructure to hydrogen as soon as practical. Hydrogen could be pumped through existing natural gas lines with virtually no modifications. The problem is that by comparison, petroleum fuels are still ridiculously cheap compared to current commercial hydrogen production. It won't always be that way and when the situation changes the changeover will be surprisingly fast. Until then, we're better off finding ways to make petroleum fuels cleaner and more efficient. That's at least one way we can wean ourselves off Middle-Eastern supplies, which certainly appear to be more trouble than they're worth.

Kevin

[Greebe]

eYup can't argue with that, cept mass production of Hydrogen is aways off in the future.

[Jessterw]

This is all too much... I can't believe they told us all those lies at Space Camp.