Russian crises....

[Dr Mordrid]

Yup...make sure they stay down.

As for the gas; it looks like the concensus now is Fentanyl; a synthetic opiate developed in Belgium in the 50's.

IF this is the case then the Russians made a mistake in not having a large resource of Narcan available for use on the hostages immediately after extraction.

Narcan is an opiate antagonist, which means it reverses many of the effects of opiates within minutes. It's often used in emergency rooms for those who have overdosed. It's not a perfect solution, but it's a big part of the treatment.

They'd have been better off using BZ.

Dr. Mordrid

[Dogbert]

The russians blew it.

Once cause they used the wrong material for the job.
Then again for hiding the meterial identity so more people died because they couldn't get the right treatment.

What's next ?

[Dr Mordrid]

Next is that we have to understand that they may not have had a usable form of BZ for the situation. IT may well be that if the theater was large enough BZ would not have been fast acting enough vs. Fentanyl.

We also don't know what their situation with Narcan is. Lots of drugs we take for granted in the West are unavailable there, and even if they are available they don't have large quantities.

The other problem is that they may well not want the world knowing what they used because of the tactical advantage that would give terrorists the next time they try this.

If, for example, they know the Russians use Fentanyl then they could have their group wear gas masks and carry a sack full of Narcan injections.

Dr. Mordrid

[Dogbert]

Well, in their place I'd keep gas masks at hand against stuff like tear gas.

[thop]

two of the hostages were flown to a hospital in munich and there halothan was found in their blood and urine.

[thop]

the terrorists had gas masks but they werent able to put them on fast enough some hostages reported.

[RichL]

Different name, same drug?

[Jessterw]

Interestingly enough the Russian goverment may not be so heart broken over the lost lives of some of the hostages. Seems a number of them were in support of a march or demonstration for the seperation of Chechnya from Russia.

Now if the goverment knew this or not is another story. I for one would hope not, but this is Russia we are talking about here.

[thop]

RichL, possible.

[Dr Mordrid]

Nope. Halothane is different vs. Fentanyl

Halothane is an inhaled anesthesia gas used in surgery worldwide. It does, however, produce 2 different types of hepatotoxicity (liver toxicity) in some patients. These are classified as type I and type II.

Type I is seen in about 20% or so of those receiving Halothane anesthesia. It's mild and self limiting; mainly being characterized by temporary changes in the results of liver funcition tests due to circulatory changes.

Type II is much less common and also much more severe, being seen at a rate of about 1/35,000 administrations. When Type II occurs the mortality rate is 50-80%.

Risk Factors:

female gender
middle age
obesity
previous or multiple Halothane exposures

Many institutions have gone to other compounds becase of their lower rates of Type II hepatotoxicity.

Dr. Mordrid

[agallag]

Wow, it sure is handy having a resident M.D. to clear up all these questions. Thanks for all the great info Doc.

[ZokesPro]

Originally posted by agallag
Wow, it sure is handy having a resident M.D. to clear up all these questions. Thanks for all the great info Doc.

Indeed.

[Dr Mordrid]

Not an MD, but still a medical type who had to deal with such things for over 25 years :-P

Dr. Mordrid

[RusCoder]

Interestingly enough the Russian goverment may not be so heart broken over the lost lives of some of the hostages. Seems a number of them were in support of a march or demonstration for the seperation of Chechnya from Russia.

Now if the goverment knew this or not is another story. I for one would hope not, but this is Russia we are talking about here.

Can't believe it. You must be kidding.

Just imagine.
Your son is a hostage. The terrorists want you to gather a rally and shout, 'Long live A.Q.! Keating to resign, BL for governor'. Then they might free your boy.

Now what should one be doing?. I personally don't have an easy answer. Do you?

A bar of Snickers, a pint of Coca per day per group. Three days long. No hope. Everybody keeps in mind: about three years ago a few Chechens blew up two blocks of flats in Moscow, several hundred casualties. About five years ago another Chechen band took 1,500 hostages in South Russia, several hundred casualties, mostly women and children.

'a number of them were in support of a march or demonstration for the seperation of Chechnya'

They were not heroes. Presently they had to give in. Do you not think you would too?

But after all

this is Russia we are talking about here

.

Shame on you.

[omegaRED]

I find the idea that Russia has "constructed" this tragedy as insulting as the insinuations the Americans themselves organized the WTC crashes, to bomb Afghanistan etc.