press without teeth?

[The PIT]

Wheres lefty???? He's enjoy them pics.
These guys are fantics who would tear the guts out of any dogooder and enjoy while they did it. It's like asking a rabid dog not to bite you if you took the muzzle off.

[mutz]

I've been party to other "practical" manners to hold or transport prisoners. I wouldn't judge what manner is used unless I had been in the context myself. The point is that publishing such pictures is intended to provoke anti-American sentiment and justify anti-American moves, even if the photo was taken as a personal brag, which should never have happened.

I might also mention that the use of firearms in the hold of an aircraft is, shall we say, inadvisable at the least. In professional transport physical restraint is as secure as possible and firearms are nowhere in reach. And even physical restraint is sometimes insufficient, as scars on my arm bear witness. I was bitten, and only when I grabbed the guy by the balls with the other hand and squeezed, did he let go. It's easy to judge situations you haven't been in, but when it's your life or just your fingers at stake, you become very careful and "inventive".

But let's have no illusions, nobody on any side of any conflict can stay lily-white for long. That's the nature of any human conflict from conjugal to international.

[ZokesPro]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
Amen. There are specialized aircraft for transporting dangerous criminals inside the US as shown in the movie Con Air, which is a real flight service run by the Feds, but there are damned few of them and I doubt they have in-flight refueling.

As for the restraints, incontence pads and headgear: RichL is right....you have to have rode in a C-130 to fully understand

Dr. Mordrid

C-130 are about one of the least comfortable planes there is, unless your sitting in the pilots seat. Loud as hell too! Even with ear plus my ears were ringing for hours!

[Joel]

Yeah, but you see everything as that, Joel.

Yeah and I could view this statement as a personal attack, which is againist forum policy, and close this thread just for that reason alone.

The sad fact is is that the press is constantly and heavily censored at the government's convenience.

That IMO is complete BS. The media is heavily run by the liberals and the only censorship that is done is the self imposed kind of not reporting bad things when it deals with the liberals.

On a more personal note I feel that they are being treated far better than they deserve. Actually I'm in complete agreement with ALBPM on this one.

I said it once and I will say it again, I believe these pictures were published in the media and here for one reason and one reason only. To stir up trouble. Of course that is my opinion which even as a mod I am entitled to have.

Joel

[thop]

That IMO is complete BS. The media is heavily run by the liberals and the only censorship that is done is the self imposed kind of not reporting bad things when it deals with the liberals.

i see it works

[Admiral]

Originally posted by Joel
And of course I see the posting of this as bait to start an anti-American flame war. I will let it proceed at this point but I do reserve the right to lock or delete this thread if it gets out of hand.

Joel

The anti-american sentiment comes from the arrogance with which these pictures were taken.
I would also be curious how they got leaked to the media, if by the same arrogant bragging trophy attitude or for personal profit ?
These pictures should have never gotten leaked to the media and the idiots who took and leaked them should be held responsible for by their superiors.
I'd agree that the prisoners are treated better than they would have treated their prisoners and such are the security conditions to get them to destination.
However, if any American member of this forum chooses to display the same arrogant attitude, as it is their free speech right, I would also reserve my free speech right to say
your attitude stinks

[cjolley]

Hey, I'm a political lefty & I think the accommodations look about right.
We didn't kill them outright because we want to know what they know.
chuck

PS Joel, the left wink publication they first came out on was Art Bell's site.

[rugger]

Admiral,

I am happy that these photos got leaked. As ugly as it is, I would prefer to have as much transparancy occur in military matters as possible. I would really get worried if everything they did was kept a secret.

And there really isn't any way to prevent this sort of stuff from happening. The military is formed of humans, and that just about explains it all

[Wombat]

Yeah and I could view this statement as a personal attack, which is againist forum policy, and close this thread just for that reason alone.

And the sad thing is, I wouldn't put it past you. You've already deleted posts of mine because I quoted you, and you didn't want anybody to read it. Oh, but that was because you didn't "feel it was something that needed to be continued."

That IMO is complete BS. The media is heavily run by the liberals and the only censorship that is done is the self imposed kind of not reporting bad things when it deals with the liberals.

Wow, your bias is so strong that it blinds you to reason. Since you're in need of remedial help, I suggest you start with Michael S. Sweeney's acclaimed <B>Secrets of Victory</B> which covers America's Office of Censorship, among other things, during WWII. Then follow that up with the accounts from photographers who were told to hand over their film in Afghanistan, or have their press passes pulled, and "possibly" be left in the middle of Afghanistan without their military escorts.

[mutz]

It is very likely that these "souvenir" photos were taken and given to the media solely for money with no other intent whatsoever. The troops in the photos knew they were being taken and made vague attempts to hide their faces. The one threatening pose is for the sake of the camera. The makeshift transport is an amateur attempt at restraint with the materials at hand. Prisoners of any nature are dangerous, whether out of intent or desparation makes no difference at all. In real life situations you will find that humane ideals and civil rights often have no bearing at all. Ask your local cop.

You watch TV, scan the net, go to the movies and think you know all about life? You sit in relative safety full of judgement and bile, from any side, and think you are contributing your wisdom to the world?

It is truly amazing and somewhat disgusting how all of you guys quote this source and that idiot and rant your opinions without having the courage to say one word out of your own life experience. Or do you have any?

[mutz]

...with exceptions. Sorry Zokes...

[Goc]

You said it right Mutz!

[efty]

Wheres lefty????

I am here

I don't really care how they are treated. You don't win wars by being civil and nice to your enemy. Apocalypse Now anyone?

It is truly amazing and somewhat disgusting how all of you guys quote this source and that idiot and rant your opinions without having the courage to say one word out of your own life experience. Or do you have any?

Well what is the purpose of this thread if we are not to express our opinions, exchange ideas and even learn a few things from the more knowledgeable among us.

[ZokesPro]

Originally posted by mutz
...with exceptions. Sorry Zokes...

That's quite alright.

In threads like these I prefer to observe.

[Wulfman]

uhoh...

after reading through this, I think I should elaborate on some things:

firstly, I have never been flying in a C-130. therefor, I thank you for making me aware of the noise-issue.

the reason for posting this was not to provoke flames, but rather the (somehow) similarity to the death of m. omofuma here in austria three years ago - and the reaction of the public.

omofuma was an illegal immigrant, who died during the transport back into his country - because of the way our police handled him (they used sticky tape to close his mouth, 'cos he was biting / shouting (guess thats what the black bag around their head is for, right?) - after 20 minutes he died, most likely choked.
soon after media spotted the story - resulting in a long dicsussion about the way criminals should be transported. during the court trial it was shown, that this solution (sticky tape) was used for over thirty years... the involved police men received a penalty of 8 months, IIRC.

the connecting link between the two stories is "awareness". everybody in austria knows that illegal immigrants are transported home - but not many knew how that was happening.

after reading these artikels I've mentioned, I had the impression, that press doesn't really want people to be aware of the situation.
it's easy to say "we flew the terrorists to whatever" to somebody, who isn't aware of how this happens (me, for example) - but tougher, if said to an "informed" individual.

which brings me to the next point:

You watch TV, scan the net, go to the movies and think you know all about life?

yes, I read newspapers & scan the net - to get information. our world is too big for me to be everywhere, I'm too young to have done everything - so that's the only thing I can do: get information, from different sources, from different point of views, written by people of different nationality, mentality, political parties, age. and it is fascinating how different the same story can be.
I always thought that this is part of my responsibilities as a citizen in a democratic nation: to have an opinion on something. and I try hard not just to read a headline and decide but rather search for information & think about the topic.

and finally:

you are contributing your wisdom to the world?

no, I'm not. I'm trying to learn & gain wisdom by interacting with the world. (horrible formulation)
I'll hopefully never take something I know as an ultimate truth (maybe except 2+2=4). efty is right: exchanging ideas (especially with people more familiar with the topic) is the way to go. and guess what? this thread has provided some new informations for me.

having said that, feel free to close the thread. it didn't resulted in the discussion about the topic (press) I intended to create. additionally, certain postings after the opening (mine incl.) are not what they are supposed to be in a forum like this.

wulfman

[edit] typo