Iraqi foreign affairs committee rejects UN resolutions....

[thop]

i say drop lawyers. kill two birds with one stone

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
I think he's referring to the hunter-killers shown in the first Terminator movie.

Dr. Mordrid

I know.. I was just teasing.

[Technoid]

btw, has the (us) army ever considered robots? (as in terminators)

[RichL]

There are some pretty spiffy looking man-powered exoskeletons the DoD are playing with.
As for robots though...have you ever met a FPS game AI that you couldnt outthink?

[dZeus]

OT:
though imho it's just a matter of years before we'll reach that step. From what I understand/believe, AI is not a matter of technical limitations, just the primitive stage in designing computer algorythms that mimic though processes as we humans use.

[K6-III]

The one thing that bothers me considerably about a war with Iraq is urban warfare, where most technological advantage disspears and even scattered forces can use civilians as human sheilds, forcing you to go in house by house, building by building, with incredible losses...

There are other issues, of course, but this one stands out....

[Wombat]

Which is why we've been training for it so much. I'm not too worried about it though. Baghdad is not Mogadishu - we've been preparing for a visit for a long time, and the intelligence is probably pretty good. Besides that, we're not dealing with true guerillas. Bombing out their weapons caches, armories, and palaces, and they'll be taken down a few notches. You don't hear too much about urban warfare in Kabul, and that seems like more of a hotbed than Baghdad. What a difference a couple dozen Predators makes.

[Dr Mordrid]

Originally posted by Technoid
btw, has the (us) army ever considered robots? (as in terminators)

Actually this is closer than you think.

The U.S. DARPA (Defense Advanced Research Project Agency) is already working with MIT, Oak Ridge, SARCOS and others on the EHPA (Exoskeletons for Human Performance Augmentation) program. Straight from the DARPA working paper;

The overall goal of this program is to develop devices and machines that will increase the speed, strength, and endurance of soldiers in combat environments. Projects will lead to self-powered, controllable, wearable exoskeletal devices and/or machines. The technological challenges that must be addressed are energy sources, power by generation, haptic interfaces, control algorithm development, as well as integration of actuation systems and all previously mentioned subsystems into a machine with an anthropomorphic architecture.

Removing the internal human and adding ROV style controls to them would be the next step before making them fully autonymous.

This progression is also taking place with ROV's like the Predator, Global Hawk & Dark Star and remotely piloted fighter aircraft. They want the fighters to be able to detect enemy aircraft that approach and go into an automatic dog-fighting mode to take 'em out before continuing on mission.

Since the remote fighters could probably pull 40 g's in a turn an opposing human piloted aircraft would be in big trouble.

Another goodie you're likely to see is the deployment of Robot Swarm. This is a treaded land ROV that contains a swarm of networked (and armed) land, wall-climbing and flying robots that could be deployed into a building where they would seek out heat sources (read: humans) as well as human odors and attack under the guidance of a remote operator. Alternatively they could also be used for intelligence purposes. Yet another DARPA project.

Dr. Mordrid

[Wombat]

I've heard that one of the government's many VC companies, such as In-Q-tel, has been partly funding the Ursus project. http://www.projecttroy.com - and so much fun to read.

[K6-III]

Originally posted by Wombat
Which is why we've been training for it so much. I'm not too worried about it though. Baghdad is not Mogadishu - we've been preparing for a visit for a long time, and the intelligence is probably pretty good. Besides that, we're not dealing with true guerillas. Bombing out their weapons caches, armories, and palaces, and they'll be taken down a few notches. You don't hear too much about urban warfare in Kabul, and that seems like more of a hotbed than Baghdad. What a difference a couple dozen Predators makes.

If they disperse weapons caches into residential complexes, such attacks would be much more difficult to justify. Secondarily, one can assume that Hussein's troops shall be better armed than the Taliban.....

If they take those steps, there is almost nothing that can keep it from turning into a bloodbath...

[Joel]

The one thing that bothers me considerably about a war with Iraq is urban warfare, where most technological advantage disspears and even scattered forces can use civilians as human sheilds, forcing you to go in house by house, building by building, with incredible losses...

Sounds alot like what the Israelis faced when they went into the Jenin refugee camp after the terrorist there. Facing bobie trapped houses and terrorist using the civilians there as human shields forcing the Israelis to go house to house at a great loss to their own. But what do you expect from terrorist who are nothing more than a bunch of cowards?

But I think going into Baghdad will be alot like what was faced going into Kabul where the majority of the civilian population are intelligent enough to truly understand who the real enemy is.

Joel

[Dr Mordrid]

The Israeli's didn't have Predators lurking over the area either.

Trying to set up for urban warfare with those things hovering 15,000 feet over your head, each carrying a load of HellFire missiles, would be a dangerous proposition to say the least

My bet is that the US and its special forces units will take the outlying regions, seizing air and army bases for staging areas before advancing to lay seige to Baghdad from all sides. Once this is accomplished they'll probably send in the Predators and whatever other attack ROV's we don't even know about yet.

At this point I think the odds are very high any remnants of the Republican Guard and regular Iraqui army that escape to Baghdad will do the rest themeselves out of self-preservation.

Saddam hasn't let large numbers of either group into the city proper for some time for fear of a coup.

Dr. Mordrid

[K6-III]

You musn't underestimate the power of 10 years propaganda saying that our sanctions are starving the people of Iraq. I believe that the people of Iraq, as well as the armies, shall not disband and bow to us at our whim.

This will be a more extended conflict than the first gulf war, despite our modern weaponry.

Let us not forget the last time the US actually engaged in full-scale urban warfare: WWII.

Seeing as much has changed since then, I would have to truly say the outcome of such a battle is not predictable. It'll depend on the strategy Iraqi forces take, as well as the role the people decide to play.

The war is winnable, but how bloody it will be is anyone's guess.....and if it turns out he didn't have weapons of mass destruction....we would have lost, not the battles....but the war.

Of the chemical weapons he has, we mostly know what they are, for we gave them to him for fighting Iran in the Iran-Iraq war.

Seeing as 1 ton of chemical weapons are less effective at killing a given # of people than 1 ton of conventional weapons, I don't see what the scare is about...(well the media sure can play it up)

Biological weapons would be a foolish form of warfare, for they hurt you just the same.

Nuclear weapons are the only threat, then....(then this is what we should be looking for)....

[KRSESQ]

""My bet is that the US and its special forces units will take the outlying regions, seizing air and army bases for staging areas before advancing to lay seige to Baghdad from all sides. Once this is accomplished they'll probably send in the Predators and whatever other attack ROV's we don't even know about yet. ""

A better strategy would be to neutralize the Republican Guard before they can even get out of their barracks. Certainly their command and control, staging, and personnel bases have been thoroughly mapped. The proper placement of the right munitions could decimate Saddam's elite forces practically in their sleep. Then heavy lift our ground forces into Baghdad with armor and predator support practically before the echoes die down. Our troops could sieze every strategic site within the city before the Iraqis even realize they're being attacked.

A lightning strike is the best way to catch them off balance and minimize our own casualties and avoid unnecessary civilian deaths. Invading the outlying areas and laying siege just gives them a chance to dig in and wear US down.

Not to mention casting us in a bad light when the "starving baby" footage starts leaking out.

Kevin

[Dr Mordrid]

Note what I said in this part;

At this point I think the odds are very high any remnants of the Republican Guard and regular Iraqui army that escape to Baghdad will do the rest themeselves out of self-preservation.

Do you think those who didn't make it to Baghdad would be playing baseball with our special forces guys?

My guess is that any Republican Guards that don't retreat to Baghdad or surrender immediatly will end up being hammered by everything with wings.

The "starving baby" footage in Afghanistan was almost immediately negated by the US and UN starting relief flights almost right out of the box. What makes you think the US will forget that PR sucess so fast?

Dr. Mordrid