Privacy

[Pace]

Yes thop, we will have to monitor this one closely.

[Jessterw]

Guess you guys don't believe that the NSA monitors a large portion of the telephone communications around the world using advanced word and phrase filters as well as voice recognition/pattern matching technology... and that they've been doing it for quite some time now. Let's not forget that this is all done in underground rooms the size of a couple football fields.

The problem is that the amount of processing power used to accomplish this is overwhelming in and of itself (with the increase in telecommunications usage), let alone adding e-mail and possibly messaging filtering and such to the equation. Hint: It's not done solely in realtime and it's not done to every phone call placed/e-mail message sent.

[Pace]

Hello Jesterzwild. I must apologize, but you and Sasq are wrong. We don't monitor any traffic.

[ZokesPro]

Yeah but again, I agree with Gurm. If I were a terrorist I would definetly encrypt my data. And if you put a long enough password and re-ecrypt you encrypted file, well then it'll take a lot longer to decipher. And even if they do manage to decipher it, it will probably be too late.

If they claim that they are using it to fight terrorism then it's probably an excuse to spy on the general public and/or and good way to get free info to sell to the opposition and make some FAT cash.

[Liquid_Memory]

Its just another step towards the New World Order.

[Pace]

Ok...they spy on the general public, who cares? Do they need an excuse, and what benefit will it do them? Plus they might specifically target encrypted data, so should we leave our stuff unencrypted? Personally speaking, I feel it is a waste of resources for me to encrypt my data, just to send a few jokes to my mates, correspond with other people, generally about trivial stuff. Nothing to incriminate me.

[Jessterw]

Monitoring the traffic of the general public would take even more resources than doing so for known "hot" spots. The FBI would be interested in some communications by the general public since it might involve information relevant to issues (current or potential) inside the country. The CIA might be interested, but only as it relates to larger issues. The NSA couldn't care less what the general public says or does unless is significanly affects... can you guess it... National Security.

You have to realize that the CIA and, even more so, the NSA have been doing this kind of monitoring for decades (albeit until recently in a more traditional telecommunications fashion).

[Gurm]

Yeah, the NSA monitors telephone calls. Since the 50's, or so we hear (despite the fact that the NSA didn't exist in the 50's).

Because they've had advanced DSP circuits since the 50's.

NOT.

- Gurm

[ZokesPro]

I'm just specualting, personally if they choose to monitor MY data then they are wasting their time.

I just don't beleive that there's any such computers in place to monitor ALL data. ("all" is the keyword here guys) I don't doubt that the FBI has theirs eyes on certain people or groups though.

[Gurm]

Oh, no doubt. Certain transatlantic communications have been routinely taped (a percentage) and analyzed. This has been happening for years now.

And I don't doubt that perhaps they are grabbing a random sampling of net traffic.

But frankly, I have NO idea how they monitor "e-mails". Let's think about this, shall we?

My e-mail goes, in plain text, from my machine to the SMTP server.

Now, IF the government had installed a filter ON the SMTP server, that would be one thing. But since half the time the SMTP server I use is here in my living room... that's not likely.

Now, the SMTP server then opens a socket to a remote machine (perhaps thousands of miles away), and the data travels as a series of TCP packets through several (if not dozens) of routers on its way to the destination.

So, you have a packet of TCP data, with NO identification on it. NOTHING to say it's an e-mail.

So not only do these machines have supernatural computing power, they are also PSYCHIC! Yes, that's the secret the government has been keeping from us - they have PSYCHIC COMPUTERS! GOOD GRAVY!

All you have to do to debunk a conspiracy theory is think about it logically for a minute.

Anyone who wants me to believe in Echelon must now explain how they know which packets are e-mail and which are pings, FTP data, MP3's from Kazaa, or Porn.

And don't just say "they know". Provide a detailed explanation of how to differentiate partially-formed TCP packets without headers. Please.

- Gurm

[thop]

i know that the FBI/NSA/CIA surely would like to know my grandma's secret apple pie receipt, NO CHANCE! unless they can read my mind they will have a tough time to get it.

[Jessterw]

Originally posted by Gurm
Yeah, the NSA monitors telephone calls. Since the 50's, or so we hear (despite the fact that the NSA didn't exist in the 50's).

Because they've had advanced DSP circuits since the 50's.

NOT.

Well first of all they weren't called the NSA back then, for that matter it wasn't even the same agency. Remind me where anyone said anything about the 1950's anyhow?

As far as e-mail snooping... it's definately not done on any large scale level. For the most part it's done on a per machine basis using specially designed Trojan applications, or monitoring of one sort or another at the ISP level.

Obviously the only way to trully monitor all e-mail is to have a dedicated monitoring device at the ISP level (mail server), ala Carnivore.

[rugger]

Grum,

Filtering email from the rest of the traffic at a router is disgustingly easy.

If the destination port for any packet is 25, then it is SMTP traffic. If it IP header says it is a fragment, then also look for the other fragments of this packet. You then make a copy of those packets. You can easily use DSP hardware to do that. Anyway, TCP packet fragmentation is fairly rare nowdays, since MTU path discovery came into wide use.

Then you send the packet copies to a machine that reconstructs the TCP stream (basicly a slightly modified TCP/IP stack will do)

But I degress, even after they have yoru emails, it is highly unlikely they are able to process every one of them. Especially since SPAM constitiues at least 80% of the email stream.

[Dogbert]

Zokes, I have a great idea for you to figure out the password on that long lost ZIP file.

E-MAIL IT !!!

[ZokesPro]

Originally posted by Dogbert
Zokes, I have a great idea for you to figure out the password on that long lost ZIP file.

E-MAIL IT !!!

Hehe, sure they will figure it out for me, but will they give ME the password? Hehe.

Good idea though!