Free speech hypocracy.....Part II

[knirfie]

well, the one that his natural father was a Jew, one his mother worked for as a housekeeper etc blahdiblah, no it doesnt justify what he did, and a sane person wouldnt do something like that.

[thop]

Well, as we all know, history is written by the winners.

[Umfriend]

Kvh: U DID NOT TALK ABOUT THE UKRANIANS IN THAT POST!

Stick to your argument or start a new one, but don;t slap me this in my face when it does not relate at all to the review you pasted on which i responded.

Don't make it seem as if I defend Stalin or even compared ALL his artrocities to those of Hitler.

ALL I SAID WAS:

Stalin left a far larger portion of Germans to live than did Hitler with the Jews. And the russians had more reason to go after the germans with a vengeance than did hitler have to go after the Jews (none in the latter case).

By reference, YOU compared the actions of the Russians in WWII against GERMANS with what the Germans did against the Jews. It was to this I responded, NOTHIN ELSE.

Umf

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by knirfie
Actually, hitler did have his reasons, you should know, because you still get it with history.

edit: typo

Hitler and Himmler and that gang were stupid, evil, and wrongheaded, and deserved their infamy. If Hitler had a problem with the Jews, he could have easily become a Zionist, focused on conquering Africa and the Middle East, and set up a Jewish homeland for them just as Britain did after the war. He could have moved them there and solved his "problem." Not that deportation is not wrong, but it is much preferable to the Zyklon B approach.

[knirfie]

i'm not saying it's justified what he did, but in his own sick and twisted way hitler did have his reasons.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Umfriend
Kvh: U DID NOT TALK ABOUT THE UKRANIANS IN THAT POST!

Stick to your argument or start a new one, but don;t slap me this in my face when it does not relate at all to the review you pasted on which i responded.

Don't make it seem as if I defend Stalin or even compared ALL his artrocities to those of Hitler.

ALL I SAID WAS:

By reference, YOU compared the actions of the Russians in WWII against GERMANS with what the Germans did against the Jews. It was to this I responded, NOTHIN ELSE.

Umf

It wasn't me that made the comparison, but the person I was quoting. This is a typical liberal tactic. Get all emotional and put words in people's mouths. If you want to balance one crime with another, that's fine. I was attempting (forgive me if I failed through your haze of indignance) to assert that the crimes of the nazis were met with the full infamy which was their due, while those of Stalin had little to no infamy attached, and the full weight of Hitler's crimes continues to plague us all in a very negative and destructive way.

[Joel]

In 1978, the gentleman from Mississippi led the charge to posthumously restore citizenship status to Confederate President Jefferson Davis.

Why not?? The only rerason he lost the citizenship in the first place is because he was a Southerner during the Civil War, which BTW slavery was not the cause for the war. Many northerners could have cared less about them as well as many northerners even owned slaves themselves, including some of Lincoln's own family. And with him not being a citizen it made him unable to run for any public office and the north were afraid that if he did he might actually win.

Three years later, he lobbied for the restoration of tax breaks for segregated private schools.

Why not?? Other schools were getting them including all black schools.

Representative Lott also voted against school busing

Forced busing has been one of the things that has helped to destory our school systems. It left alot of parents unable to participate anymore in their their child's educational process.

and the creation of a federal holiday honoring Martin Luther King Jr., opposed continuation of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, and voted against extending the 1965 Voting Rights Act--twice.

All of which IMO has help to promote reverse discrimination and furthur racism abeit reversed. Plus it was his right and duty as a public servant to vote according to the wishes of the people who elected him. See there is part of the problem. Go againist anything that favors the minorities, particularly blacks and you are immediately labled a racist. Could it just be that somethings are just not good for all concerned in the long run??

He also committed some early, notable "gaffes." In 1984, during his stint as chairman of the GOP Platform Committee, Lott boldly declared that "the spirit of Jefferson Davis" was alive and well in the Republican Party. (Which would suggest that Lott is proud not only of Mississippi's choice for president in 1948 but its choice in 1860 as well.) Worse yet for his current p.r. pickle, The Clarion-Ledger reported that in 1980 Lott gave this testimonial about Thurmond at a political rally in Jackson, Mississippi: "You know, if we had elected this man 30 years ago, we wouldn't be in the mess we are today." Thus, it seems last week's birthday remarks were neither wise nor original.

Again, no specifics expect what the news nedia wants us to believe.

Joel

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Wombat
No, I don't think it could. Put it into perspective with Lott's past actions, and you have a solid portrait of a racist.

In <I>The New Republic</I>

Factor in his support of the Council of Conservative Citizens, a

~~>white supremacy group,<~~

where he has been a guest speaker numerous times and meets with them regularly, with quotes like “The people in this room stand for the right principles and the right philosophy. Let's take it in the right direction, and our children will be the beneficiaries.”

More tidbits here: http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=7210

Rob, you are slipping.. what if I called the NAACP a "black supremacy group?" You would be all over me for this "defamation"

This whole episode is so typical of what most people loathe about the liberal media, their tactic of taking something out of context, infusing it with emotion, and using it to take out their political opponents with a campaign of infamy.

They get really flustered and indignant when they cannot control the brainwashing of the American public, too.. you should have seen Geraldine Ferraro and (I cannot remember the other prominent liberal) on Fox news. They were INDIGNANT in attacking the ownership of Fox news as some sort of far right evil entity, simply because they were not in line with their propaganda objectives.

Trent Lott has no reason to apologize to anyone. If I were he, I would not kowtow to the liberal propaganda ministry in any way.

[Joel]

BTW It was Jefferson Davis who pushed to have the slaves recognized on the US census for government representation. Abeit at 2/3 as a compromise to the northern controlled government. They did want them to be counted at all.

You see if they could have counted all the slaves as whole persons that would have given control of the House to the Southern states and the majority of the electoral votes.

BTW Slavery for the most part in the south was on the way out before the Civil War ever started.

Plus how did those slaves get to the US? They were sold by there own people to mainly English slave traders and then brought to the US on ships flying either the English or Union flags. Then sold through northern slave companies.

Joel

[Wombat]

I didn't say anything about the Davis issues, because I don't really mind them. Although, saying Davis pushed for the 2/3 compromise as if it were a good thing is pretty stupid. 2/3 of a white man, and still not allowed to vote? No wonder the North didn't think they should be counted - for the most part, <B>their</B> blacks could vote.

The rest of your post isn't relevant to anything.

Rob, you are slipping.. what if I called the NAACP a "black supremacy group?" You would be all over me for this "defamation"

You're right, I probably would. But the CofCC traces its roots to the Citizens Councils of America, and associates frequently with the "Church" of the Christian Identity. Supporting Aryan movements like the Identity is damning enough for me.

[KvHagedorn]

Well, liberal Hollywood allowing such films as Higher Learning and X is damning enough for me. They also staged some sort of black ass-kissing parade last year and called it the Academy Awards. What the hell was all that crap about? The Academy Awards have been useless for a long time as any measure of quality in film, and never has it been so apparent as recently. Steven Soderburgh getting the best director award for Traffic?? This wrongheaded film deserved nothing but infamy, yet they pass over Ang Lee, who made a masterpiece like Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon to give Soderburgh the Oscar. Words cannot express the disgust I have for Hollywood and the society that runs it.

The liberal media has twisted right and wrong in every way. I remember when the "X" craze was everywhere, I went into a bookstore, saw all the damnedable "X" merchandise everywhere and asked the manager where his Hitler calendars were.. as his eyes widened in surprise, I said "So you mean if you are black it's alright to be a genocidal prick, and you are made into a hero, but if you are white it is wrong, and you are evil?

[Joel]

Although, saying Davis pushed for the 2/3 compromise as if it were a good thing is pretty stupid. 2/3 of a white man, and still not allowed to vote? No wonder the North didn't think they should be counted - for the most part, their blacks could vote.

Seems you should learn alittle bit more about your history. Davis pushed to have them counted as whole in both the south and the north. And freed slaves even in the south were allowed to vote. Unfreed slaves though, even in the north, were not. Even as bad as histroy tries to make it look sometimes there were actually more freed slaves living in the south than in the north which still would have given the South the advantage. There is alot more I could go into about this but as you said it is irrelevant.

But also as someone else said history is written by the victor usually in such a way as to make the ememy look to be nothing but pure evil.

And you did bring up the Davis issue with your quotes.

BTW Jefferson Davis is my fifth great uncle and I am damn proud of that fact.

You're right, I probably would. But the CofCC traces its roots to the Citizens Councils of America, and associates frequently with the "Church" of the Christian Identity. Supporting Aryan movements like the Identity is damning enough for me.

And the NAACP supports the Rainbow Coalition which IMO is not much better and also has thrown alot support even behind Louis Farakan who has even in some of his speeches called for the death of the white man.

Joel

[Wombat]

Sorry, I have no idea about Higher Learning or X, I saw neither.

The Academy Awards: It was long overdue man. Denzel Washington has had many Oscar-worthy performances. Berry was supposedly very good in that movie (didn't see it). Sidney Poitier has done more for American cinema than almost any other actor, black or white. Yes, he deserves extra credit for doing it in the forties and fifties, when blacks were still fighting for their right to exist in this country. Robert Redford won the same award the same night, but I don't see you making any noise about that, do I?

Traffic is supposed to be damn good, and it's on my list of movies to see (haven't watched many lately). CTHD was a very good movie too. It was beautifully done, and so it won Oscars for Art and Cinematography, which were well earned. It also won best foreign film. At least you didn't dispute it losing best picture: Gladiator is easily the better movie.

[Joel]

Nobody said they weren't deserving it was just the manner in which it was carried out.

Joel

[KvHagedorn]

Actually, I thought Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was superior both directorially and as a film (hard in my mind to distinguish these two in most ways) to the rest of the pack. Gladiator was good, even excellent, but it just didn't have the same literary and visual qualities as CTHD. It was a big picture though, huge in every way, and Hollywood likes that.