More complaints about searching here !!

[Jorden]

If I try to search on Asus P2B I get the message:
"The search term you specified (p2b) is under the minimum word length (4) and therefore will not be found. Please make this term longer.

If this term contains a wildcard, please make this term more specific."

Hello.... I searched on Asus P2B !!!!
I even tried "Asus P2B", yes, including the quotes, and it still came back with the above message...

What do I have to search on these days? Asus P2B-get me the flick any thing??
Jord.

[Rags]

Jesus Jorden, how long have you been using search tools? There's always ways around short terms like that. Use the freaking * for the fourth character and you get a lot of good results. Here's what I just tried, searching with P2B* :

---

http://forums.murc.ws/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=8012&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

So let's not rag on Ant, he already explained why he left the default search at 4 or more letters. I would hate to see the forums get corrupted again, and I do enjoy having a decent loading speed as do many others.

Rags

[Jorden]

Did I rag on Ant for letting the search quota on four letters, Matt??

If you read correctly I searched on the full quote of "Asus P2B", which includes the space.... Asus is as far as I know 4 letters already... It needs fours letters or chars, so it should consider spaces as chars as well !!!

Never tried a Google search on "Asus" and seperatly on "P2B"? Ever did a same search on Google on "Asus P2B"??? Did you see the differences?

Anyway, If I search GH/S on "Asus P2B" the search engine should NOT give me back the answer:
"The search term you specified (p2b) is under the minimum word length (4) and therefore will not be found. Please make this term longer.

If this term contains a wildcard, please make this term more specific."


I searched on "Asus P2B", dammit !!!!!!! that's more than your p2b !!!!

Jord.

[Greebe]

Also using Asus*P2B works

[Rags]

Originally posted by Jorden
Did I rag on Ant for letting the search quota on four letters, Matt??

If you read correctly I searched on the full quote of "Asus P2B", which includes the space.... Asus is as far as I know 4 letters already... It needs fours letters or chars, so it should consider spaces as chars as well !!!

Never tried a Google search on "Asus" and seperatly on "P2B"? Ever did a same search on Google on "Asus P2B"??? Did you see the differences?

Anyway, If I search GH/S on "Asus P2B" the search engine should NOT give me back the answer:
"The search term you specified (p2b) is under the minimum word length (4) and therefore will not be found. Please make this term longer.

If this term contains a wildcard, please make this term more specific."


I searched on "Asus P2B", dammit !!!!!!! that's more than your p2b !!!!

Jord.

Jorden. You really need to learn to use search functions. If it asks for another character, just use the *. When you type in "P2B" it is going to index the files that have the three letter word p2b. If you use a *, it will index anything that has p2b in it. Now is that so tough....well I guess I should consider the source



And yes, it looks like ragging to me.

Rags

[Jorden]

Okay Rags, whatever you say, okay?

Can you please explain to me and any of the other people who come in here and search on a specific mobo which name is larger than 4 chars, but which's code is 3 chars, like SPECIFIC ABC, how the search will tell us where to go?

It only looks at the last 3 chars... it doesn't even look at Asus or SPECIFIC...
What good is a search on a forum, and what good is a moderator telling people to search the forums for their answers, then ??

Jord.

[Rags]

Originally posted by Jorden
Okay Rags, whatever you say, okay?

Can you please explain to me and any of the other people who come in here and search on a specific mobo which name is larger than 4 chars, but which's code is 3 chars, like SPECIFIC ABC, how the search will tell us where to go?

It only looks at the last 3 chars... it doesn't even look at Asus or SPECIFIC...
What good is a search on a forum, and what good is a moderator telling people to search the forums for their answers, then ??

Jord.

Jorden, put your glasses on. I aready told you

Example, you want to look for Abit BH6, put Abit BH6* in the search. Wow, that was tough wasn't it?

As to your moderator comment, I don't get it. Do I need to be drunk to understand your posting?

Rags

[Kaj]

like: read before u post plz...

The whole issue here is why the searchengine can't handle spaces in a query. Why do you _have_ to use a wildcard in a query that has allready 7 letters in it, just because it has a space in it as well.
That's the whole point here; nothing more, nothing less.
Maybe Ant knows how to fix it, maybe not.
But Jorden HAS a point here, and doesn't deserve a treatment like this, but a normal answer; preferably from Ant. (I guess)

[Rags]

Like: learn how search engines work before you post

Originally posted by Kaj
The whole issue here is why the searchengine can't handle spaces in a query. Why do you _have_ to use a wildcard in a query that has allready 7 letters in it, just because it has a space in it as well.
That's the whole point here; nothing more, nothing less.
Maybe Ant knows how to fix it, maybe not.
But Jorden HAS a point here, and doesn't deserve a treatment like this, but a normal answer; preferably from Ant. (I guess)

Kaj,

I understand his question and his problem. You see, a search engine treats the space as "or". If your search includes a word with less than 4 letters, then you are breaking a rule of the search engine. So you aren't looking for a seven lettered word, you are looking for a four lettered word AND/OR a three lettered word. The result on indexing is the same. Now, if one chooses to be smart, they can actually learn to get around those little annoyances. Say if Jordy wanted to search for only P2B's and not P2B-S' as well, then all he has to do is put in ' +Asus +P2B* -P2B-S. Learn how they work before shooting off your mouth. It must be something in the water there

If the soap box were still open, I would start lessons on basic web surfing and sign you two up.

Rags

[Kaj]

Re: Like: learn how search engines work before you post

Originally posted by Rags
Kaj,

I understand his question and his problem.

Why do you react like he's a total newbie then? Just a simple "because this engine can't handle spaces" or something similar would have been more than enough. But noooo; you're Rags, and he's Jorden and whenever one posts something, the other HAS to react in a sarcastic kind of way.
That goes for the both of you, but in this thread, you started the sarcastic tone on what I believe is a fairly normal way of asking a question.

You see, a search engine treats the space as "or". If your search includes a word with less than 4 letters, then you are breaking a rule of the search engine. So you aren't looking for a seven lettered word, you are looking for a four lettered word AND/OR a three lettered word. The result on indexing is the same. Now, if one chooses to be smart, they can actually learn to get around those little annoyances. Say if Jordy wanted to search for only P2B's and not P2B-S' as well, then all he has to do is put in ' +Asus +P2B* -P2B-S. Learn how they work before shooting off your mouth. It must be something in the water there

You know; some might understand how the enige works if someone puts a proper explanation on the board on how the engine actually works.
I'm used to searchengines that DO know how to handle spaces (yes, they do exist) and the searchengines I visit that don't are making perfectly clear to their users what they can and can't do, so when no-one bothers to make clear what this particular engine understands, why should I go and assume the worst?
If I was currently browsing in 1994 or even earlier, I would have said: "Yes! You should assume the worst." And I assume that I don't have to explain why, because from what I've read, you were online in that period also.
As for the AND/OR-story, this doesn't add up. Logically; the engine had to come up with something since there allready was a four letter-word in the query. Since the engine says "seperate your search terms with spaces", why doesn't it come up with some results on the Asus-part of the query?

If the soap box were still open, I would start lessons on basic web surfing and sign you two up.

Well, how nice of you... Maybe I would sign you up for some lessons on social skills. (see: price, tea and China)
Why of all people do YOU have to judge MY skills of websurfing? I'm not questioning yours, now do I?
Yes, I know you put a smiley after that remark, but maybe it IS something in the water here that makes me feel very sick whenever you decide to have the last laugh on someone. Not just you though; there are more people who feel the need to try and drive the last nail somewhat deeper. Yuck.--->I made a nice story on things like this: but why bother... The Great Rags wants to have the last laugh.
Man, why is it so hard to ignore people like you?

[Rags]

Re: Re: Like: learn how search engines work before you post

Originally posted by Kaj
!---Why do you react like he's a total newbie then? Just a simple "because this engine can't handle spaces" or something similar would have been more than enough. But noooo; you're Rags, and he's Jorden and whenever one posts something, the other HAS to react in a sarcastic kind of way.
That goes for the both of you, but in this thread, you started the sarcastic tone on what I believe is a fairly normal way of asking a question. You know; some might understand how the enige works if someone puts a proper explanation on the board on how the engine actually works.
I'm used to searchengines that DO know how to handle spaces (yes, they do exist) and the searchengines I visit that don't are making perfectly clear to their users what they can and can't do, so when no-one bothers to make clear what this particular engine understands, why should I go and assume the worst?
If I was currently browsing in 1994 or even earlier, I would have said: "Yes! You should assume the worst." And I assume that I don't have to explain why, because from what I've read, you were online in that period also.
As for the AND/OR-story, this doesn't add up. Logically; the engine had to come up with something since there allready was a four letter-word in the query. Since the engine says "seperate your search terms with spaces", why doesn't it come up with some results on the Asus-part of the query?
Well, how nice of you... Maybe I would sign you up for some lessons on social skills. (see: price, tea and China)
Why of all people do YOU have to judge MY skills of websurfing? I'm not questioning yours, now do I?
Yes, I know you put a smiley after that remark, but maybe it IS something in the water here that makes me feel very sick whenever you decide to have the last laugh on someone. Not just you though; there are more people who feel the need to try and drive the last nail somewhat deeper. Yuck.---I made a nice story on things like this: but why bother... The Great Rags wants to have the last laugh.
Man, why is it so hard to ignore people like you?

You see, Kaj, Jorden didn't have a question. He had a complaint. I merely pointed out (admittedly with a harsh tone, but only because he has complained about this before and Ant gave him an explanation on why) a way around this limitation.

You see, the message board DOES let you know when you violate the terms of the search. It's blatantly obvious when you get an error message that tells you that you cannot search for words with three or less letters. If you think about how ANY search engine works, it makes sense. The only limitation to this one that I can see is that when you put the search term in quotes, it doesn't look for the exact order of the quoted term.

It's not about having the last laugh. I am just tired of Jorden complaining about the same thing over. I realize he thinks it's a different problem, but it's really not. It just takes a little common sense and some fore thought and it can be got around. I have nothing against Jorden personally. The only problem that I have with Jorden, and it's not personal, is that he cannot just listen. You can tell him the same thing four times in a row and guarantee that it is correct, and yet he will argue about; Heck, there could be dozens of people showing him proof and he still will refuse to believe it and argue. Do a search of his posts in this particular part of the forum, and you will see him doing the same thing with the OWNER of the site.

How about instead of complaining, he just ask "How does one search for terms that have three letters or less?". I would have showed him how. It would of been nicely posted, but you see it seems that instead of asking a question before complaining, he is quick to jump the gun. I like this site much better than before. The search function is much better and faster. I don't really like having the limit on numbers of letters, but Ant has already explained why he has done this, and I take that explanation as a very well reasoned response. At any rate, there are ways around it, that will give you a broader search, but there are ways to narrow that down as well.

----"As for the AND/OR-story, this doesn't add up. Logically; the engine had to come up with something since there allready was a four letter-word in the query. Since the engine says "seperate your search terms with spaces", why doesn't it come up with some results on the Asus-part of the query?"------
The And/Or story is the way it is, and it's also the way it is on 99% of search engines. Logically, it hasn't come up with any results, because there is a limitation on letters in a search. And when you hit submit, the software checks to make sure the search terms are within the rules, and "Asus P2B" clearly is not. P2B is a whole separate term in the search, and it's less than four letters. Now as far as the software not just ignoring the P2B part, I am sure that the writers of the software decided that if someone puts in another term, even though it breaks the rules, that the searcher wanted a very narrow search, and as such decided to stop the search and ask for different terms, rather than give results that don't match what the searcher had intended, and that makes sense to me. What good is a search engine that gives results that don't match what you are searching for?

Rags

[Rags]

BTW, Kaj, if you ever need to talk to me directly, just ICQ me, 8085001

I will gladly discuss with you anything you wish. Maybe you will see that I am not a terrible person, as Jorden would have you believe.

Rags

[xortam]

The MURC search function is a little unusual in that Ant has decided to limit search terms to greater than three characters. I understands his reasoning (to improve search speeds on the "under-powered" web server) but many people, myself included, have run into unexpected difficulties. A judicious use of wildcards will get around the problem but their use isn't obvious to the less search-savvy users. The search page could use some better explanation and examples of how to get around the term length limitation. It would be helpful if the search page included examples such as the "ASUS P2B" search examples found here.

[Rags]

Originally posted by xortam
The MURC search function is a little unusual in that Ant has decided to limit search terms to greater than three characters. I understands his reasoning (to improve search speeds on the "under-powered" web server) but many people, myself included, have run into unexpected difficulties. A judicious use of wildcards will get around the problem but their use isn't obvious to the less search-savvy users. The search page could use some better explanation and examples of how to get around the term length limitaion. It would be helpful if the search page included examples such as the "ASUS P2B" search examples found here.

I agree. There should be more information there on the page. Ant, if you need help to customize that page, I will do it for you.

Rags

[spoogenet]

The four-letter-minimum rule is a good one, I would say primarily due to database size constraints.

On the other hand, it would be nice if performing a search within quotes took the term as a literal expression, rather than parsing the space to be something else. While the engine uses spaces as separators, anything within quotes should be searched for literally, exactly as it was entered between the quotation marks. Thus a search for "what you say" would only find the 1000 threads with all three words in that order. However I guess this would be difficult due to the <4 letter constraint.

Hey, I'm just saying it would be nice....

If we can just get more descriptive instructions on the search page that explain the difference, I think it would avoid much unnecessary confusion and facilitate understanding. We must learn to work around the barriers of our technology until the technology permits us to do otherwise.

b