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**Kruzin** · 18 August 2002, 15:09

Warez is software that has not been officially released by the company that wrote the software, or software that was not legally purchased.
Drivers are software.
These drivers where not officially released.
Someone broke their NDA to put them out on the web.
That makes them warez.

And this thread has nothing to do with Matrox Hardware.
It's either a rant that belongs in the soap box, or a question of how this place is run, which would belong in site feedback.

Moved to Site Feedback.

**[GDI]Raptor** · 18 August 2002, 15:12

Re: Why is a leaked driver warez?

Originally posted by UberLord
So why do the mods here think a leaked driver is warez?

Alot of the mods here are beta testers for Matrox, and you have to sign an NDA agreement to get those drivers form Matrox.

You can probably bet those drivers elsewere

**leech** · 18 August 2002, 15:34

Re: Why is a leaked driver warez?

Originally posted by UberLord
Why is a leaked driver warez?

It's not as if it's a complete product - you need a Parhelia to actually use it. So you've already paid for it.

Also, if you're unable to play a game and the leaked driver fixes the problem then why should I have to wait weeks/months before it's released? I find that I'm unable to play NWN multiplayer as the game crashes out randomly. ROM stated that this is being looked into, so I'm assuming that it's a Matrox driver issue instead of a game bug. This crashing basically means it's pretty pointless playing on-line and I've been waiting some time now for a fix.

Lots of forums/sites leak drivers and service packs pretty much all the time - as they are not complete products. However, they do stamp down on postings regarding full product downloads (like games and apps) and the keys/key gen programs to make them seem legal.

So why do the mods here think a leaked driver is warez?

Well, I guess I was one of the lucky/unlucky ones to download these 'leaked' drivers. Dont' worry, it doesn't fix NWN, it SCREWS IT UP ROYALLY!!! No text whatsoever in even the launch menu, and it gets worse from there!

As far as leaked drivers being 'warez' That makes about as much sense as a unofficial patch being 'warez'. Though I do understand the nature of the NDA and the person who supposedly leaked these should be cut off from the beta team. Leaking drivers that aren't officially released can cause havoc on those who install them instantly before having others test them. I've tried a few of ATI's 'leaked' drivers and had varying success (usually the fix one thing, then mess up 5 others) So anyone who'd install these unofficial drivers (for any card manufacturer) knows that they do so at their own risk. Hey, as far as we know some crazy nVidiot hacked into Matrox, stole these, then virused them.

Leech

**Greebe** · 18 August 2002, 18:15

First off this is not an issue with the MURC therefore this thread is totally in the wrong forum.

Warez is in effect stolen software, be it a game, an application or drivers. It really makes no difference.

You guys act like children who had been told no snacks before dinner, but sneaked it anyway. Then when your mommy took it away threw a temper tantrum. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

**lecter** · 18 August 2002, 18:40

Greebe, if something is free to begin with, how can you consider getting it the same as stealing? You steal something for which money is charged. If someone had posted a link for a 2$ program I would have understood the attitude, but this is simply not the case for freeware....In any case, whoever downloaded it did it on his own risk and it should be his right to choose. Freeware is not warez, even if it is leaked.

**Rags** · 18 August 2002, 18:50

Originally posted by lecter
Greebe, if something is free to begin with, how can you consider getting it the same as stealing? You steal something for which money is charged. If someone had posted a link for a 2$ program I would have understood the attitude, but this is simply not the case for freeware....In any case, whoever downloaded it did it on his own risk and it should be his right to choose. Freeware is not warez, even if it is leaked.

Hey jackass, it's not freeware. It's software with a limited use license, and if it's not posted for free use, then it's not only against the license to distribute it, it's also against the law. Time to bone up on both logic and law skills.

Rags

**DGhost** · 18 August 2002, 19:07

heh, i've brought up the exact same issue in other forums (rage3d to name one) and people just do not seem to understand.

just because it will be free doesn't mean that it is not illegal to distribute it, especially when its in beta. almost every company who does pre-production software liscenses it for internal use only, and in such a way that those with access to it are not allowed to give it to other people.

there is no difference between this and a product that costs $50 or $200. the attitude of "its free so its not illegal" or "its only $20 so it isn't a big deal" is one of the most irresponsible attitudes that anyone can take. it doesn't matter if you go 5 mph over the speed limit or 50 mph over the speed limit - you are still speeding either way and you should at least be able to recognize the fact that you are.

of course, the rage3d moderators will make posts saying that they do not condone warez and what not, but will say that leaked ATI drivers or DirectX9 beta builds are perfectly legal... what freaking idiots...

edit: also, you said freeware is not warez... keep in mind that freeware and shareware are two very specific liscenses that allow you to copy software and give it to others... just because a piece of software is released for free doesn't mean that you can freely copy it...

**lecter** · 18 August 2002, 19:11

Rags, I believe I used normal language in this conversation...can you do that as well? You are right that it has a limited license, on the Matrox website it says that the user has no right to recopy, sell or distribute it, but if it's OK to post the final, released drivers on a driver website I don't see why this should be considered warez. Sure, it's an unethical thing to release these, but it's still a far cry from posting something like a Photoshop ISO...whoever needs these drivers and is willing to risk installing them has already given at least 400$ to Matrox for the card. With that money he has purchased a card and also has the right to install whatever drivers will be released by Matrox in the future...as far as I see it, the only bad person in the whole thing was whoever broke his NDA and released them on the Net. Yes, that is illegal and he should probably be punished...however, downloading and installing them on my own PC is my right as a Matrox video card owner.

**xortam** · 18 August 2002, 19:13

... its kind of like being sort of pregnant.

**DGhost** · 18 August 2002, 19:15

Originally posted by xortam
... its kind of like being sort of pregnant.

ROFL

**Rags** · 18 August 2002, 23:53

Rags, I believe I used normal language in this conversation...can you do that as well?

While you may have been using 'normal' language in this 'conversation', you sure have been using ****ed up logic. As far as me using normal language, cope.

You are right that it has a limited license, on the Matrox website it says that the user has no right to recopy, sell or distribute it, but if it's OK to post the final, released drivers on a driver website I don't see why this should be considered warez.

Matrox gives permission to some websites to distribute officially released drivers. They don't allow internal builds out in the wild for several reasons. Debugging code, untidy coding, and incomplete packaging are just a few. If they want end users to have MATROX's software, then MATROX will release it.

Sure, it's an unethical thing to release these, but it's still a far cry from posting something like a Photoshop ISO

Unethical, illegal, and also a breach of license is enough to NOT DO IT. Just because you have no problems with lack of morals and unethical practices doesn't make it okay.

...whoever needs these drivers and is willing to risk installing them has already given at least 400$ to Matrox for the card.

That doesn't make it right. That's like me saying that since I bought a 30K dollar jeep, that Jeep owes it to me to give me every new flash update for the ECM they have internally because I am willing to take the risk. It just isn't going to happen, and the amount of money you spent on the card has no bearing on this argument.

With that money he has purchased a card and also has the right to install whatever drivers will be released by Matrox in the future...

I agree. But these drivers WERE NOT RELEASED BY MATROX.

as far as I see it, the only bad person in the whole thing was whoever broke his NDA and released them on the Net. Yes, that is illegal and he should probably be punished...however, downloading and installing them on my own PC is my right as a Matrox video card owner.

Actually it's not your right. You have no rights to MATROX's SOFTWARE. That belongs to them, no one else. You agree to a license to USE THEIR SOFTWARE. It's the same as with almost all software.

Rags

**sirkoj** · 19 August 2002, 01:29

Hi,

I really can't see the point where this is not understandable. All drivers are the property of Matrox. If they decide to not release these drivers, everyone who do is breaking the law. And even if they release drivers on their website, these are the property of Matrox and you have accept their rules.

I think Matrox has a lot to loose if this practice of leaked drivers going through the web is getting usual. One of Matrox's bests is their driver quality.
Have you ever tried to download a nvidia driver from a non official site? Leaked, beta, offical, stable, detonator 10 , 12 or whatever. If I download a Matrox driver, it maybe not the latest, but I know its a stable release, and that is exactly what I want: trustworthy drivers.

Sirko.

**UberLord** · 19 August 2002, 02:38

Originally posted by Kruzin
Warez is software that has not been officially released by the company that wrote the software, or software that was not legally purchased.
Drivers are software.
These drivers where not officially released.
Someone broke their NDA to put them out on the web.
That makes them warez.

I was under the understanding that legally purchasing a Parhelia entitled me to driver updates?

I disagree with the above making them warez. IMHO, warez has to be a complete product. Otherwise it's useless. And the driver is pretty useless without the Parhelia.

And this thread has nothing to do with Matrox Hardware.
It's either a rant that belongs in the soap box, or a question of how this place is run, which would belong in site feedback.

Moved to Site Feedback.

Sorry about that, just a knee jerk post to the wrong forum. But then it was in response to your sticky in the same forum....

**Dogbert** · 19 August 2002, 02:48

UberLord,

I used to think this way too. Till one day in the late 90's Creative and then other companies started posting a license agreement b4 letting you download the drivers.

Currently, some companies (coughumaxcough) sell driver updates

.

By the way, beta software (which isn't 'completed') is considered warez as well.
Warez is any piece of software that you get in a way not intended by the owner.

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