Parhelia vs. the 8500(not a review)

[Helevitia]

Since the card hasn't actually been announced yet, I decided to post this here. I, like many others, have been debating on what my next video card will be. Now, first of all, I am not an expert in video cards nor do I claim to be anything else but a PC hobbiest so please don't flame me. I am looking for constructive feedback and criticism.

Right now, I can purchase an Radeon 8500 64MB vivo for ~$100.00. This gives me component out(HDTV), video in, comparable speeds to the GF4 4200, and a killer price. For $50 more I can purchase the remote wonder. I am assuming the remote can control other things besides TV channels(sorry, didn't research it yet). I don't care about the TV tuner. So, for ~$150.00 I can have a damn nice video card with great image quality, remote and mature drivers(i know, i know).

Or, I can purchase the Parhelia in a month or two for ~$400, not have component out, no video in, no remote, immature drivers and I don't know about the speed. Now, if I want video in, I can purchase a card such as Happuage(sp?) or something else for another $50-$100. I have an older camcorder that only supports RCA cable. Now I have the firewire port on my SB Audigy. Is that a true firewaire port that I can plug a digital camcorder into? If I want to go that route that's another $500+ depending on what I want(and I always want more hehe). So, if I want the equivelant Matrox card compared to ATI, I would need to spend at least ~$1000. Now, I know there are other things to consider such as 10 bit gigacolor, surround gaming, advanced shaders, blah blah blah, but is it worth the extra ~$300 just for the card? BTW, I am just a occasional Photoshop user so what really attracts me to Matrox are the great drivers, quality, and great community.

I won't consider other cards. There is nothing else I like. What do you all think? Now, I know I could possibly be wrong on some of the info with the Parhelia but based on what Haig has said, I think my info is fairly accurate. So tell me why I might want to lean towards one or the other card. I will definitely wait until the reviews come out before making any decision. Also, by the time the Parhelia comes out, the AIW will ahve dropped even more. Probably close to $200 which is an outstanding price! I really wanted Matrox to come out with a marvel version but that doesn't look like it's going to happen anytime soon(tm).

Dave

[Marshmallowman]

I am waiting for an official price from matrox before I buy my next card as well.

I think it will probably be out of my price range, but I think waiting a few weeks will mean the 8500 will be just that much cheaper if I decide to buy, and there are a few ultra versions popping up which would be cool.

I think we will know for sure tommorrow

[Tom]

I bought my Radeon8500 in December 2001 and I'm very happy with it. The 3D speed is incredible and the 2D is almost as good as my G400MAX. If you want the firewire port, there is the
Radeon AIW 8500DV (64MB,a little slower than the 275/275 Radeon). If you want more gaming performance, there is the
128MB AIW 8500 (no firewire, but full speed as 275/275).
My only complaint is that the combination of the Radeon8500,
ATi's TV Wonder and Windows XP causes some grief....
believe it or not
There is a good VIDEO review of the 128MB AIW at
3dGameMan

[EvilDonnyboy]

I'd just like to point out that there is currently no 8500 vivo, 3rd party or otherwise. The only way to get video-in with an 8500 is to get one of the 2 all-in-wonder variants.

Also, you don't get HDTV output out of the box. You must purchase the just recently released HDTV adapter which will set you back 50 bucks or so.

The remote wonder however is one of those rare things that is just great. Seemingly, all cool new features seem to always have some kind of catch. The remote wonder just roks. Great drivers, great support (powerdvd, and winamp already have plug-ins for the remote wonder), great functionality. There isn't anything that can compare to it.

[Clevor]

The point is, how well will the Parhelia perform at 1600x1200 with FSAA and anisotrophy enabled to the max? My Geforce Ti 4600 gets 12k scores but drops down almost 50% in D3D apps when just max anisotrophy is enabled. To say nothing about FSAA being applied!

At 1600x1200, the video card is on it's own, doesn't matter whether you are running a 3 gig CPU.

I got a Radeon 8500 also, and it just doesn't cut it at 1600x1200, IMO. A Ti 4600 is much stronger there, as long as aniso is not enabled.

[Helevitia]

I'd just like to point out that there is currently no 8500 vivo, 3rd party or otherwise. The only way to get video-in with an 8500 is to get one of the 2 all-in-wonder variants.

Interesting, I just assumed that it would have video in. Well, that helps me somewhat since that is an important feature to me. I am looking forward to benchmarks.

Dave

[xortam]

The ATI component dongle is still vaporware: They announced the part but no one has received one yet and ATI claims to be out of stock. It was reported the price is $15 and $20 shipping. The dongle is also crippled (thank you MPAA) so it won't play DVDs at high resolutions. Component interface to HDTV looks to be a dead-end. Check the AVS forums for details on this issue.

The HT folks prefer to use the 7500 over the 8500 for VGA output to TVs. The 8500 has various driver issues and gamma problems that have completely frustrated them.

[the maddman]

Well, you can get the Radeon 8500 and get good gaming and one analog one dvi. And the chip on it that does TV out did the Video in on the Radeon 64VIVO, but there is no input on an 8500.

Or you can get the 8500DV, which has video in, a tuner and firewire. But it's way slower then the 8500, and has one DVI and tv out, no dual monitors at all.

Or there's the 8500AIW 128 meg. As fast as the 8500, lots of ram, video capture and tuner, just no firewire. Oh yeah, and only one DVI and TV out again, so no dual monitors either.

Then there's Parhelia. Two DVI or 3 analog out. if only Matrox will release one with basic analog capture.... I don't want firewire on the video card, I don't need a tuner, just basic video in. I guess I'll just have to wait for the RT-Parhelia

[EvilDonnyboy]

Originally posted by xortam
...The dongle is also crippled (thank you MPAA) so it won't play DVDs at high resolutions.
...

The HT folks prefer to use the 7500 over the 8500 for VGA output to TVs. The 8500 has various driver issues and gamma problems that have completely frustrated them.

Yea, nobody has one yet. From what I understand, the DVD HDTV protection is only on macro protected discs. There are already custom drivers and separate patches that disable macro protection in drivers. I don't think there is one currently for the latest catalyst drivers, although I'm sure the community is working on one.

The gamma issue's have been fixed in privated dev drivers. From what I understand, this fix is implemented into the released catalust. I don't notice anything wrong with my DVD playback regarded gamma.

[xortam]

I see some folks in the AVS forums have now gotten the dongle and are underwhelmed by its IQ. I also read that the Catalyst drivers fixed the gamma issue. I don't know much about these issues except what I run across by chance in these forums. Here's an AVS thread where they discuss their experiences.