Safe to mount a G400MAX on a i845D chipset?

[KevinST]

I'm sure that you' knew this was going to be asked....

Care to upload the documents and provide a link to them so we can all see the differences???

[Sasq]

hmmm an interesting read can be had here

particulary the line

The renewed inspection of the AGP2.0 specifications confirmed that the AGP universal slot is the only AGP slot reading the A2 pin for distinguishing between 3.3V and 1.5V graphic boards and therefore recognizing a graphic board to comply with AGP4x or not.

Dan

[KevinST]

I agree it is an interesting article, however as (AFAIK) the G400 is designed to go into a Universal AGP slot, so the TYPEDET# should have been used.

I'm really mystified why there's been so much argument on this issue... it's almost as if no one can believe that Matrox might have made a mistake.
Haig himself has said that TYPEDET# should be grounded, and has suggested to a customer that they wire the TYPEDET pin to ground themselves.

[Rags]

The G400 was designed and put to PCB before the change was made. Look at issue16 on Intel's site for notes considering the change.

The final PDF is still on their site, it states clearly that ALL 3.3V cards leave TYPEDET# open.

ftp://download.intel.com/technology/...oads/agp20.pdf

Page 219, bottom of the page.
"All 3.3V cards leave TYPEDET# open."

On page 222:
"On an A.G.P. 1.5 volt signaling add-in card, TYPEDET# is hardwired to
ground. Note that the A.G.P. clock and reset will be driven at a 3.3 volt signaling level regardless of what I/O
signaling levels (3.3 volt/1.5 volt) is selected by the add-in card. Components that are not 3.3 volt tolerant must
divide the 3.3 volt A.G.P. clock and reset signaling levels down to avoid possible damage to the inputs of these
devices."
This tells you the consequences of having the improper voltage going to a 3.3V only card. It WILL NOT damage the motherboard.
Again, this refers to the universal slot only.


Here's a note on article 16 about the AGP4X proposed change (I am sure that Matrox and other mfrs were involved in getting this change made).

http://www.intel.com/update/archive/issue16/stories/ss2.htm

Note: "A Universal card should ground the TYPEDET# pin. On power-up, a motherboard that supports both 3.3 and 1.5 volt signaling will set Vddq based on TYPEDET#. "
First this suggests to the change be made to make the cards used in universal slots to use the new 1.5V signaling. Second it clearly implies the TYPEDET# is to be used on universal slots.

No provision was made for universal cards until the ECR request was made. The first PCB of the G400 had already been made after the change. Now after the change was made, then the G400 refelected that change.

Asus was wrong to use the TYPEDET# IMHO.

Rags

[Rags]

I agree it is an interesting article, however as (AFAIK) the G400 is designed to go into a Universal AGP slot, so the TYPEDET# should have been used.

Wrong. All HWQ assessments were done on 3.3V slots, so by their logic, they would stick with a signalling that would be proven to be okay. Now, after the provision for universal add in cards such as the G400 were made, the G400 reflected that change, and motherboards with 1.5 signalling were also available for HWQ testing, thus it was proper to change the PCB at that time.

I'm really mystified why there's been so much argument on this issue... it's almost as if no one can believe that Matrox might have made a mistake.

Matrox didn't make a mistake. They were going by the specs as they were. Matrox came out with an innovative design that was eventually adopted by other mfrs, and as such gave enough grounds to ammend the spec. Matrox followed the spec after that change was made.

Haig himself has said that TYPEDET# should be grounded, and has suggested to a customer that they wire the TYPEDET pin to ground themselves.

It should be grounded, because the spec has changed. If you want it grounded, then ground it.

Rags

[HalvDan]

Hi

I'm a happy owner of a G400 Max from the first revision and it's been the best graphics card I've ever had. But now I've bought an Abit TH7II-RAID motherboard that's on it's way and I'm a little bit worried over this typedet issue. As I understand it's up to the G400 to switch to 1.5 V, if you have a motherboard with a 1.5 V only agp slot that don't check the typedet. Have anyone tested a first revision G400 card that is not grounded on a 1.5 V only motherboard (one that doesn't check the typedet)?

/Dan

[Rags]

Originally posted by HalvDan
Hi

I'm a happy owner of a G400 Max from the first revision and it's been the best graphics card I've ever had. But now I've bought an Abit TH7II-RAID motherboard that's on it's way and I'm a little bit worried over this typedet issue. As I understand it's up to the G400 to switch to 1.5 V, if you have a motherboard with a 1.5 V only agp slot that don't check the typedet. Have anyone tested a first revision G400 card that is not grounded on a 1.5 V only motherboard (one that doesn't check the typedet)?

/Dan

Hi Dan,

The G400 will work fine in a 1.5 only slot. The only issue is the earlier PCB of the G400 with that Asus board. AFAIK, those boards are the only ones witha 1.5 only slot with a TYPEDET#.

Rags

[KevinST]

This tells you the consequences of having the improper voltage going to a 3.3V only card. It WILL NOT damage the motherboard.

there why are there several reports of non1.5v AGP cards damaging 1.5v only chipset motherboards???
As you have pointed out, the AGP spec was written before any 1.5v chipset's were available, therefore the damage assesment would have been theoretical.

Here's a note on article 16 about the AGP4X proposed change...

unfortunatly, this article is not dated (not that I can see anyway)

Asus was wrong to use the TYPEDET# IMHO.

Personally, it is the only way I can see that they would be able to prove electrically that the AGP card will work at 1.5v. You can't rely on the physical connector cut out as there are several cards out there that have the AGP4x / 1.5v cut out but do not support 1.5v

It should be grounded, because the spec has changed. If you want it grounded, then ground it.

It's a pity you didn't agree with me on that back at Christmas when you tried to suggest that the sate of the pin would be changed automatically by the card

At the end of the day, we're going to have to wait for Matrox to come back to us with what they are going to do about G400's that do not have TYPEDET grounded.
If, as you suggest, it was a design requirement to leave TYPEDET open then I guess Matrox are not under any requirement to swap units out.

[Rags]

Is that what you are looking for?

A swap?

I don't think you will get one.


Not because one particular motherboard has chosen to ignore the specs. Even the latest AGP specs are insisting that TYPEDET be used in the universal slot.

Why is it a pity that I didn't agree with you back then? I misunderstood your issue, that's all. Even so, the G400 will work fine in a P4B266 motherboard.

Rags

[KevinST]

This thread is getting silly. We're not going to agree.
You've avoided coming back many of the points where I've questioned your sources or your statements (e.g. you claiming 1.5v AGP cards can't damage motherboards, dates on documents ) so why should I bother trying to continue a logically threaded conversation?

Anyway....
A swap??? That's what Haig has been indicating toward since Matrox started to be involved in a more helpful way than has been experienced on this forum.
Do I want a swap??? not really - I don't use my G400 - it's gathering dust... I became involved in this issue when I was one of the first to receive a P4B266, found others were having issues with G400's and thuought I would use my tech support and design skills in trying to help out.

If Haig says it's OK to wire the TYPEDET to GND and that nothing on the board will be effected then I'll do that.

I still can't understand wht you think Asus were wrong in using the TYPEDET pin to detect a valid 1.5v card... after all if the card is OK to be used in a universal slot (which I expect 99% of AGP cards would be... after all there's no physical reason for a card not to fit into a universal slot so it's in the manufacturers interest to have it work in a universal slot) then the TYPEDET pin will show the correct state.

And as for misunderstanding my issue in the other thread I gave up on??? I'm amazed that you could misunderstand me saying TYPEDET should be grounded... and I can't think of any statement you may have thought I said which would result in you suggesting the state of the TYPEDET pin is changed by the G400 card!

[Rags]

Originally posted by KevinST
This thread is getting silly. We're not going to agree.
You've avoided coming back many of the points where I've questioned your sources or your statements (e.g. you claiming 1.5v AGP cards can't damage motherboards, dates on documents ) so why should I bother trying to continue a logically threaded conversation?

Anyway....
A swap??? That's what Haig has been indicating toward since Matrox started to be involved in a more helpful way than has been experienced on this forum.
Do I want a swap??? not really - I don't use my G400 - it's gathering dust... I became involved in this issue when I was one of the first to receive a P4B266, found others were having issues with G400's and thuought I would use my tech support and design skills in trying to help out.

If Haig says it's OK to wire the TYPEDET to GND and that nothing on the board will be effected then I'll do that.

I still can't understand wht you think Asus were wrong in using the TYPEDET pin to detect a valid 1.5v card... after all if the card is OK to be used in a universal slot (which I expect 99% of AGP cards would be... after all there's no physical reason for a card not to fit into a universal slot so it's in the manufacturers interest to have it work in a universal slot) then the TYPEDET pin will show the correct state.

And as for misunderstanding my issue in the other thread I gave up on??? I'm amazed that you could misunderstand me saying TYPEDET should be grounded... and I can't think of any statement you may have thought I said which would result in you suggesting the state of the TYPEDET pin is changed by the G400 card!

You know, you sure are a class A ass.

I have been nothing but nice and helpful towards you and you have come off as a prick. Well, go be a prick, I am not discussing anything with a prick.

Rags

[Zanna]

I opened the computer case !

My G400 Max does have a PCB 906-01 Rev.A

I have the same PCB revision of KevinST, then I suppose this doesn't work with P4B266.

Rags, does you have the same PCB rev? (you stated that your card it's working fine...)

If yes, what is your S/N ? (If you want, can leave the three last digits *obscured* )

Where is assembled your card? Mine is made in Ireland.

===========

I readed the Haig statement on the Matrox forums.

I think only if I have a motherboard AGP4X compliant in the left hand and a graphics card AGP4X compatible in the right hand, there must be possible to use these two items together.

I want to stay with my matrox card until next serious Millennium GXXXX release, if I will be forced to buy an other graphics card, and Matrox doesn't have released nothing new, surely I will have to spend my moneies on one G-fart or other peasant Canadian things...

Is definitely sure to wire the TYPEDET# signal to ground?

It would be much beautiful one if someone (Haig?) even explain how to identify this pin (with one the attached photo, even), how to check if it is well connected, and eventually how to wire it to the ground !

*** A minimal digital multimeter cost less than a new card ***
(but I have already one)

Thank to everyone.

[Greebe]

Componet side of the card, second pin from the case front... if you have this PCB revision then it's open... we are all waiting for the official word on wether it's ok to ground.

[Haig]

and eventually how to wire it to the ground !

I can't show people how to modify our hardware becuase I am basically helping you folks put your card out of warranty.

I'm sure a smart young lad will eventually figure it out and tell you folks what to do.

Haig

[Rags]

Simply take a pencil and bridge the open R68 spot.

I will take a photo of it tonight if I get time when I get off work.

Rags