Announcement

**Jammrock** · 9 March 2003, 08:49

It's not an invasion of privacy, so they kind of do have the right if they they have evidence that the majority of sales are being used for illegal drug use.

Putting a giant hemp leaf on the glass usually is a nice way to attract attention.

**Liquid_Memory** · 9 March 2003, 20:07

Here is more on this subject from www.americanpress.com

Attorney General Ashcroft cracks
down on paraphenalia Companies.

AG (Attorney General) John Ashcroft announces
during a news conference in Washington Monday,
Feb. 24 that 36 people were charged Monday in
federal indictments with trafficking in illegal
drug paraphernalia from coast to coast.

- REBECCA ROTH | American Press

John Brown, acting DEA Chief, had this to say,

"People selling drug paraphernalia are in essence
no different than drug dealers. They are as much a
part of drug trafficking as silencers are a part of
criminal homicide."

I'd like to direct Mr. Brown to the Web site of
revelationarms.com of Aloha, Oregon. Not only will
they sell me a gun silencer, there is an entire page
devoted to explicit directions on how to obtain the
necessary paperwork and background check in order to
allow me to purchase a silencer online. I have to be
at least 21 and innocent of any felony crime. One
credit card payment and a little paperwork and I can
blow someone's head off with a minimum of personal
hearing damage. Of course John Brown, of the Drug
Enforcement Agency, has little interest in guns and
murder outside of the world of drug dealing. In the
last couple of days, however, he has overseen the
arrest of at least 55 people whose only stated crime
was the manufacture and selling of tobacco accessories.
His equation of bong-makers with drug traffickers is
ludicrous at best, and his apparent indifference to
the legal sale of silencers across America makes him
a hypocrite caught in his own words.

This action, known as Operation Pipe Dreams, is part
of a continuing effort on the the part of Attorney
General John Ashcroft to rid our land of the ability
to smoke weed with a little style. In the past 10 years
the pipe making industry took an art class and began
to integrate aesthetics into the production line.
Handblown glass pipes began as a one-of-a-kind art
form created usually by twentysomethings with talent
and time on their hands. Over the years pipes became
amazingly elaborate, with high-end waterpipes evolving
into colorful gothic cathedrals. Simple $20 spoon-shaped
pocket handpipes became the common smoking apparatus of
choice, replacing decades of utilitarian metal and acrylic.

However, the powers-that-be want a return to the
paraphernalia stone age. If the DEA has its way, that
loathsome scum of an American subculture who still dare to
believe that smoking various herbal substances is their own
damned business will be forced back into stealing plumbing
screens from their faucets and emptying out plastic honey
bears in order to fashion crude waterpipes a la Brad Pitt
in the movie "True Romance." Pepsi cans and beer bottles
will be pulled out of trashcans, aquarium tubing will be
purchased at Wal-Mart, and lamp parts from Home Depot will
turn into pipe bowls for the waterpipes that will be Rube
Goldberged into existence.

Americans have been given the distinct impression that our
federal budget is strapped for cash and that we need all
resources to ferret out the terrorists in our midst. It seems
a waste of resources to carry out Operation Pipe Dreams in
order to ensure that 55 pipesellers will no longer be on the
streets while terrorist cells await their orders in the heartland
of America. Doesn't Ashcroft have better things to do? What about
those darned silencers all over the internet?

In the meantime, lives are being ruined. Many if not most
paraphernalia dealers are under 40 years old and guiltier of
being young and naïve than of being dangerous. If forfeiture occurs
there may not be enough money for their families to hire top-notch
lawyers. In a recent conviction Chris Hill of Chills Pipes was
sentenced to one year at the Eglin prison facility, and Hill was
one of the wealthier pipe manufacturers in the U.S. Pipe dealers
have not made their profits from stealing or acts of violence. It
is an odd choice on the part of the U.S. government to convict
young entrepenuers and house them in prisons at great taxpayer
expense.

Over at impactguns.com there's a virtual cornucopia of submachine
guns, some with silencers, some without. There's an HK MP5 A3
machine gun transferable 9mm in excellent condition on sale for
$8,800. Oh darn, it's got a "Sold" sign by the price. The top of
the page states: "Machine guns are a specialty here at Impact.
They are very easy to purchase and are a great investment."

If only our forefathers had the insight to put in an amendment
for smoking accessories right there with the right to bear arms.
Maybe then John Ashcroft and his DEA buddies could just sit
around the fire with Tommy Chong and the other paraphernalia
company owners, and their only pipe dreams would be world peace.

Amen to that Debra McCorkle, who wrote the above article for AlterNet.

I would just like to add my 2 cents into the equation. If Sherlock
Holmes was alive now and had the oppurtunity to smoke his pipe
tobacco from glass instead of a wooden pipe, he would probably
be standing in front of Ashcroft's home yelling "GET A LIFE".
There are other things that glass pipes are used for Asscroft,
and thinking that everyone smokes marijuana out of them, only
proves that you need psychiatric help. This man has mental
issues and needs someone to administer his medication.

John Brown, I have one thing to say to you. To make a statement
of comparing glass blowers with manufactures of gun silencers and
people who commit homicide, only proves that people with an IQ of
2 can run for office.

Its people like Ashcroft and Brown that make me say this,

Our Country wasn't founded by Idiots, its just ran by em.

**Sethos** · 10 March 2003, 06:15

Well if they say and can provice substantial evidence to support that it is in the greater public interest and safty to ban the usage of glass smoking apparatus, then yes they can leagally do it. In general the suppremem court has ruled in favor of public safty over individual rights...

~Sethos

**Liquid_Memory** · 10 March 2003, 07:13

Yeah but to compare Glass pipe manufacturers with people
who sell silencers and guns is about as far away from the
tree as you can get. It would be like saying car manufacturers
are liable for all the drunk drivers on the road.

**Jammrock** · 10 March 2003, 08:04

Hahaha ... the difference is, guns can be legally owned, marijuana can't.

Jammrock

**Liquid_Memory** · 10 March 2003, 09:19

So can alcohol, but it doesn't make it right. I can go online and buy a machine gun, then get drunk. Get into my car, and go on a shooting spree while running people over, and if I have enough money, get away with it, but if I just want to smoke a joint and chill out for a while, I get thrown in jail for doing something that in no way harms anyone else but myself. Besides that, there are a number of drugs that are far worse than marijuana, one of them being crack cocaine. Any hard core man made drug should be taken off the market, and besides marijuana is all natural, no added ingredients, and known to be the best anti-depressant, pain reliever, and anger management drug out there. So why is it so bad? Because the government can't figure out a way to tax the heck out of it, without people turning around and growing there own, which they do anyways.

**KvHagedorn** · 10 March 2003, 10:50

You know, I'm kind of surprised the government hasn't legalized marijuana, since it makes the user tend not to really give a shit about anything... except the legalization of pot that is, then he gets his bowels all in an uproar.

**IM_Riktar** · 10 March 2003, 10:59

You know, I'm kind of surprised the government hasn't legalized marijuana, since it makes the user tend not to really give a shit about anything... except the legalization of pot that is, then he gets his bowels all in an uproar.

Now that is funny. Thanks for the laugh!!!

As to the goverment not being able to FIND a way to tax it: Are you kidding me? Right after the use of Military force that is the Goverment's forte'

Reasons for non-legalization go quite a bit beyond that.

**Jammrock** · 10 March 2003, 11:18

So can alcohol, but it doesn't make it right.

The same could be said about a lot of things. Cars are dangerous, too. Should we ban them and make everyone walk?

I can go online and buy a machine gun, then get drunk. Get into my car, and go on a shooting spree while running people over, and if I have enough money, get away with it...

Somehow I think not. I love how you oversensationalize everything.

... but if I just want to smoke a joint and chill out for a while, I get thrown in jail for doing something that in no way harms anyone else but myself.

You'd get thrown in jail because it's illegal, just like you would if you went on a shooting spree (no matter how much cash you have). Whether it hurts other people or not is a matter of opinion. I suppose it depends on what you do when you're high, just like it depends on what you do when you're drunk.

Besides that, there are a number of drugs that are far worse than marijuana, one of them being crack cocaine.

What the hell does that have to do with wanything you're discussing? That comment diserves a big ... WELL DUH!

Any hard core man made drug should be taken off the market...

Ahem ... WELL DUH!

...and besides marijuana is all natural, no added ingredients...

So are magic mushrooms, should we legalize those too, while we're at it. And it also depends on the grower and refiner. Just because it's grown all natural, doesn't mean it's smoked all natural.

...and known to be the best anti-depressant, pain reliever, and anger management drug out there.

According to what study, may I ask? And any link to a pro-marijuana site is automatically considered null and void. Yes it CAN have medical uses, but come on, honestly...how many people truly smoke marijuana for it's medical uses? I would bet well under 5% or less. That's just a cop-out to try and get it legalized.

So why is it so bad?

Because it's a mind and mood altering drug.

Because the government can't figure out a way to tax the heck out of it, without people turning around and growing there own, which they do anyways.

BWWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA...the US could find a way to tax anything. They could find a way to tax you for having more than 2 living grandparents if they wanted to. And let's face it, if marijuna was legal, what percent would actually grow their own, even if it was taxed? People could grow tobacco in their basement using the same techniques as they do hemp and make their own tobacco to smoke and avoid the 200%+ sin tax on cigarettes, but do they? Hell no! It's easier to go to 7-11 and buy a pack.

If Marijuana was legalized it would be just one more product for Phillip-Morris to make an extra $20-30 billion a year. They would add in all sorts of crap to them to make them even more addictive, even if they supposedly aren't now, and they would eventually become just as bad as cigarettes if not worse. But since all tobacco does is slowly rot away your insides, versus marijuana which is an actual mind/mood altering substance, the effects of mass marketing it would be catastophic.

But that's just my opinion...

Jammrock

**Sethos** · 10 March 2003, 14:04

I have to say that I'm with Jammrock 110% on this one...Right on...

Pot is something that ought to be put on place, and one place only THE pot, and flushed. You can argue that it isn't harmful, or that it's even bennificial in some cases, but far to often it just isn't. Above and beyond the fact that it is illegal, it is to dangerous.

Of course this is just my personal and respectful opinion...

~Sethos

**IM_Riktar** · 10 March 2003, 14:23

Using the arguement that booze is legal is not legitimate.

When you look at all the problems that occur from people drinking too much you have to realiize that the problems would double (Give or take) once you introduce something else to cloud the mind.

Alcohol is something that is too entrenched in society to ever try and outlaw it. Prohibition proved that.

I'm sure somewhere in the universe their is an arguement raging about making booze legal because "Pot is and look how bad that is"---

And for the record, their are medical uses for alcohol. My own doctor agrees with the philosophy about having a glass of wine, or a can of beer with dinner.

I am still trying to convince him that I can accomplish a whole weeks worth of that on Saturday night.

He aint buying it.

**Technoid** · 10 March 2003, 15:57

It's time again

**SpiralDragon** · 11 March 2003, 00:28

decriminalizing it would not be bad..... keep it ilegal but not a crime to smoke up...

**Gurm** · 11 March 2003, 05:25

Hey, which part of "hpar and Liquid Memory - we hate you and never want you to come back here ever again" didn't you understand? I can use smaller words.

Someone please ban this idiot and his idiot clone?

- Gurm

Yes, I think they have every right.	0%	9 votes
No, this is a violation of my civil rights.	0%	12 votes

Announcement

Operation Pipe Dreams

Operation Pipe Dreams

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment