Bad news :(

[Brian Ellis]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/2877899.stm

I fear that this is near to catastrophic, as it will cause far more human deaths over a far longer period of time than the Iraqi conflict.

[SpiralDragon]

ahh... these sumits... been to some of them... they are more intrested the delegates are more intrested in filling thier stomachs and egos for free rather than do something about the impneding problme.... last time around it took a group of us to initiat a counter laziness front...

[Dilitante1]

you would think with reverse osmosis equipment, that a lot could be processed and pumped in from the ocean

we (the world) HAVE the means, just no ambition to stand up and take action

[Brian Ellis]

Reverse osmosis is far too polluting and expensive to run for developing countries and many of the places which lack water the most are landlocked, anyway.

We have two major RO plants on this island, providing ~90,000 m3/day. The overall cost, including manpower, building, fuel, maintenance (horrendous) etc. and it's nearly $1/m3, without distribution costs. This is over 3 times the cost of water from boreholes, which are depleting the aquifers at a phenomenal rate. Fortunately, we have had an above-average precipitation this winter.

On top of this, the RO plants have added about 25% to our CO2 emissions balance sheet.

[K6-III]

Closed-loop farming systems would go a long way towards alleviating water shortage concerns.

[borat]

Originally posted by Dilitante1
you would think with reverse osmosis equipment, that a lot could be processed and pumped in from the ocean

we (the world) HAVE the means, just no ambition to stand up and take action

as said ambition takes money and sadly (or not pending o your perspective) we care too much about our phones laptops cars and tv's to give our money to the third world. also if we were to supply clean water to much of africa it would then mean that less people died from water problems and there would be more to feed in an already famined environment. so do we send out food aid?maybe but then tomorrow when people have reproduced there are 3 times as many to feed as today, this is unsustainable, the only way for many countries out of there impoverished state is to pull themselves out, despite our best interests we always end up messing things up when we involve ourselves there.

[RedRed]

Borat:

Its V complex.... Look at ethiopia. They are working their butts off to make a state out of the tatters of famine and war. They nationalise a baby milk factory - and Nestle sue them for a poxy $10,000,000! They have studiously avoided the World Bank (can you blame them - the corruption of the rest of aftica showed them the folly of that path....

RedRed

[K6-III]

Assuming that the endless conflict can be stopped, aid in the form of construction of closed loop farming systems in Africa would lead to the cure of hunger.

Genetically modified Soy that grows 24 hours/day, with all water and almost all resources recycled is definitely the way to go. At a talk I recently attended, it was claimed that with closed loop farming systems, we could feed 10 billion people off the farmland the size of the state of Arizona...

[borat]

Originally posted by K6-III
Assuming that the endless conflict can be stopped, aid in the form of construction of closed loop farming systems in Africa would lead to the cure of hunger.

Genetically modified Soy that grows 24 hours/day, with all water and almost all resources recycled is definitely the way to go. At a talk I recently attended, it was claimed that with closed loop farming systems, we could feed 10 billion people off the farmland the size of the state of Arizona...

dont disbeleive that but thats pretty inapropriate technology, the people in these countries are largely and unfortunately uneducated, if we were to introduce to them the tech needed to make closed loop work it would not only cost a lot but be too complex for them to use and maintain, thus once again relying on the west for handouts.

[borat]

Originally posted by RedRed
Borat:

Its V complex.... Look at ethiopia. They are working their butts off to make a state out of the tatters of famine and war. They nationalise a baby milk factory - and Nestle sue them for a poxy $10,000,000! They have studiously avoided the World Bank (can you blame them - the corruption of the rest of aftica showed them the folly of that path....

RedRed

agreed its far from black and white but in many of these places there is not even a stable rule of law in forceso any worek you do to help is destroyed by tribe warfare or disputes, in many pklaces there societies are not such that western ways can easily fit in and help them so they are best left to come to a sustainable circumstance in my opinion.

[K6-III]

Originally posted by borat
dont disbeleive that but thats pretty inapropriate technology, the people in these countries are largely and unfortunately uneducated, if we were to introduce to them the tech needed to make closed loop work it would not only cost a lot but be too complex for them to use and maintain, thus once again relying on the west for handouts.

Assuming you can automate the process sufficiently, it would be quite ideal.

[Dr Mordrid]

What's wrong with solar evaporative distillation? It also has the side benefit of giving you a commodity to sell: the dissolved chemicals sea water is so rich in....which includes many mineral salts and gold.

OTOH I can remember camping in the Texas and New Mexico deserts and getting all of my water from a hole in the ground, a sheet of clear plastic and a tin cup.

Dr. Mordrid

[K6-III]

What I'm talking about is using less water in the first place.

I'm not speaking out against concurrent approaches...

[Brian Ellis]

Doc

A 16-year old girl in the UK "invented" a neat system for solar purification of river (not sea) water on a scale suitable to provide adequate safe, cheap, drinking water for villages of up to 200-250 inhabitants. She applied for a grant to have it developed. It was refused as "unnecessary". This is the kind of difficulty we are faced with.

Solar flash distillation is technically able to provide vast amounts of potable water from sea water. Unfortunately, the installation is horrendously expensive and takes up enormous areas of land. The latter is fine where the desert meets the sea, but nobody lives there to drink the water! This is why RO is much more popular (especially as energy is cheap in many desert regions). It takes a relatively very small space, can be sited close to urban areas where there is already a grid of water pipes and is less unsightly with its multi-km2 of collector panels.

Regardin water usage, the WHO has a MINIMUM recommendation of 100 litres of CLEAN water per person per day for sustainable life. The global average is 58 l/p/d. This does not sound too bad until we realise how developed nations skew the results. In Europe, the figures vary from ~250 - 400 l/p/d and in the USA, the national average is 680 l/p/d. I'm not saying that it is bad to use the water if it is available locally, but 280E6 x 680 is the same as nearly 10 billion persons with 20 l/p/d, so you can see how easy the average shifts.

Three years ago, we were in a drought crisis after three extraordinarily dry years and before the RO came on line. We were rationed to a couple of hours of water three times per week, at a trickle. At one point, we were slightly under the WHO minimum of 100 l/p/d in our household of two. Believe me, it's tough, flushing toilets only after defaecation; showers every other day, in, soap, rinse, out as fast as possible, in a 40+ deg C daytime temp; sharing the same glass of water for brushing teeth; cooking pasta in water that barely covers it; using minimal oil in cooking, to save on washing up water; changing bedlinen at half the normal frequency, even using underwear for two days and so on. We, in the so-called civilised world, think that water is a God-sent right for it to come out of a tap when we want it. My wife and I experienced hardship with an average of ~95 l/p/d for about a month of hot weather: just imagine what we would have felt with the global average of 58 l/p/d or, worse, the reality for billions of zero clean water or, at the best, 5 or 10 litres.

I don't wish to be polemical, but what would these billions think if they read, "What I'm talking about is using less water in the first place.".

[borat]

Originally posted by K6-III
Assuming you can automate the process sufficiently, it would be quite ideal.

automation = high tech western influence so when it breaks no one has any means to fix it so it rusts and is a waste, you must provide them with technology which they can maintain and operate themselves so they may learn to develope it themselves and have the means to reproduce it in opther places rather than relying on othr countries to continually support them.