China the puppetmaster?

[Chrono_Wanderer]

LOL S*it. I made this thread went topic

Getting from space race b/t India and Pakistan, to Sukhoi and USAF planes

[Chrono_Wanderer]

BTW does anymoe know if Sukhoi / MiG is doing any research on STOVL?

[Technoid]

There is always some russian dreaming away

[Dr Mordrid]

Oh well.....try this then: the U.S. govt. Centennial of Flight website article on forward swept wings;

http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Evolution_of_Technology/foward_sweep/Tech9.htm

Sometimes technological developments to overcome aeronautical challenges succeed but provide such a small improvement in performance or operations that they are never widely adopted. Such is the case for forward-swept wings, a design concept that has never really caught on for any kind of aircraft.

............


The Grumman X-29 first flew in 1984. It had a strange appearance, with the wings mounted well back on the fuselage, and almost looked like it was flying backward. The aircraft could only be flown with the help of an advanced computer control system. In numerous tests over the next several years, the X-29 demonstrated that the forward-swept wing design produced a 15 percent better ratio of lift to drag in the transonic speed region. But Department of Defense officials were not significantly impressed by this performance improvement to approve any further experimental aircraft and the two X-29 aircraft were soon retired to museums.

............

Forward-swept wings remained dead as a concept until the surprising appearance in 1997 of the Russian Sukhoi S-37 Berkut ("Golden Eagle") with its forward-swept wings and canards. The S-37 uses the front fuselage of the popular Su-37K fighter, but is otherwise an entirely new aircraft.

It is significantly larger and heavier than the X-29 and when it first appeared, Western experts speculated that it was a prototype heavyweight naval fighter. But after several years of laboriously slow flight tests, Sukhoi did not appear ready to begin producing large numbers of forward-swept wing naval fighters and the S-37 remains a one-of-a-kind aircraft. Whether this is because the Russians have been unimpressed with their forward-swept wing airplane's performance, or simply because of lack of money is unknown. But it is clear that the forward-swept wing remains a novel solution to a problem that nobody feels the need to solve.

As noted previously: not enough of an aerodynamical advantage to override the other design difficulties.

In short: a solution in search of a problem.

Dr. Mordrid

[Wulfman]

biologists call structures that look the same and serve the same purpose but evolved on different species analogies.
a plane needs certain features to be able to fly - and from what I've seen so far there are not many (useful) ways to arrange them.

having said that: I tell you that every nation that built a plane copied an american design.



personally, I still think the B-71 (blackbird) is one of the most impressive flying vehicles out there.


wulfman

PS.: but maybe they just observed birds...

[Nowhere]

and there were earlier designs...but Flyer was of course the first succesful one

[KRSESQ]

I tell you that every nation that built a plane copied an american design.

If you're gonna steal, steal the best.

Form follows function, esp. in the aeronautical field. I suspect that it isn't so much a lack of imagination or original thinking, but more a matter of there being just so many ways to design a supersonic aircraft.

BTW the Russians did such a thorough job of copying captured B29 bombers that they even reproduced the battle-damage repairs.

Kevin

[Nowhere]

well...Stalin just said Tupolew to copy the plane, so when the other "design" team members asked Tupolew whether or not to copy all, he just quoted comrade Stalin

btw, they've also copied one excess hole (from some drill afai remember...) on the wing and the painting on the inner tunnel of the plane (apparently when original owners painted it, one of the colours ended ).
And there's a little anegdode: Tupolew went once to Stalin and asked (among other things - while leaving) what stars they suppose to paint on the plane - the red ones or the white ones?

[RedRed]

What ever happened with the Russian ground effect plane? - it was a novel idea too....

(never worry that the thread has gone to hell in a hand-basket!! )

RedRed

[Novdid]

Originally posted by RedRed
(never worry that the thread has gone to hell in a hand-basket!! )

RedRed

Hey, it's MURC afterall!

[Chrono_Wanderer]

@Novdid: LOL

[RedRed]

Its not that I am sensative or anything!!!!



(just a bit of a proto post whore..... (I look up to Zokes !)

[GT98]

Both the MiG-29 and SU-27 both look like the F-18..and the reason for this is that they had a mole/spy in Northrop/ McDonald-Douglas's design team for the F-18 and the A-9

F-18 and MiG-29




A-9



and SU-25

[Dr Mordrid]

Originally posted by RedRed
What ever happened with the Russian ground effect plane? - it was a novel idea too....

(never worry that the thread has gone to hell in a hand-basket!! )

RedRed

You mean the so-called "Caspian Sea Monster" WIGE (Wing In Ground Effect) craft of the 1960's?



This one crashed in 1980, but in the 1970's Ekranoplan produced the A.90.125 Orlyonok that had some sucess.

When you look at this think in terms of a 500 km/h "hovercraft" that can carry 15,000+ metric tons of cargo

Understand the US is working on a WIGE transport for the Navy.

Dr. Mordrid

[Wombat]

I used to have a link to Boeing's WIGE program, but the link is now dead.

http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/i_pw.html

Edit: Ahh, archived now. Meet the Pelican. http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers...mber/i_pw.html