UK, Britain, England, Scotland

[GNEP]

What about 2nd/3rd generation urdu/gudjrati speakers? They're not immigrants...

[SpiralDragon]

sure that just cleared everything up........ add in the comonwealth and now what do you get...

[Brian Ellis]

No, sorry, they are not NATIVE speakers, at least in the accepted sense. They are from immigrant stock.

A native language is generally accepted as being one that has a historical record of being directly derived from the original inhabitants of the country. In the case of the British Isles, we are talking about evolutions of the languages spoken by the common people at least 200 or 300 years ago or more. Yes I know that English is a bastardised mix of the original Celtic languages, Low Latin, Anglo-Saxon and Norman French, but it has been considered native since Old English started to become semi-standardised by the invention of printing in the 15th century. Since then, the evolution has become clear as the majority language spoken in England.

As English is a living language, it has evolved considerably in my lifetime, absorbing many foreign words (esp. American) and changing meanings and pronunciations. But it is still English and is still native English. Some examples of recent evolution:
gay (meaning homosexual)
onto (used to be always two words)
cheers! (meaning thank you)
awesome (meaning magnificent, actually a complete reversal of meaning)
bugger (a semi-affectionate term, no longer a sodomite)
squad (a games team)
overview (a useless and ugly neologism as English already has several words which mean the same and do not come from mixed Germanic and Latin roots)
paradigm (a cult word meaning a model or example and not the inflections of a word, probably confused from paragon)
etc

[GNEP]

The fact it's a living, constantly evolving and rich (in terms of vocabulary) language is sometghing I love about English.

But I give up on the other native languages (and I refuse to "cheat" and google it - there's another coming one - "to google") - you are going to have to enlighten me Brian

[RedRed]

Well there is Ulster Scots - but it hasnt been a languages spoken ooutside one corner of one county - its a cross between Old English, Scottish Gaelic....

About 200 speakers - NONE native, though moost assembly (local parliment) documentation is translated into it as a matter of course - it helps Loyalists (those who want to remain part of the uk) maintain some sort of identity....

[Brian Ellis]

OK, I'll give half the answer: eight. Now tell me what they are! Ulster Scots is not one of them. I must admit that I've not heard of it. If there are actual native speakers, then it may well be a ninth.

[GNEP]

Do the Manx have their own language?

[Brian Ellis]

Yes, that's one of them.

[KvHagedorn]

Manx was extinct, I thought.

English
Scots Gaelic
Irish Gaelic
Welsh
Manx (extinct?)
Cornish (also extinct?)

Norse was spoken in the Orkneys until a few hundred years ago, but you don't mean this.. what are your other two (and your source for claiming them)?

[Pace]

<ul><li>Scots</li></ul>

[KvHagedorn]

I said Scots..

[Brian Ellis]

OK

Neither Manx nor Cornish are entirely extinct. There are enthusiast groups of a few persons still keeping them alive and native, although Cornish did die out as a native language for about 100 years, but has come back. There are even radio and/or TV programmes in both languages.

They are:
English (of course)
Scottish Gaelic
Irish Gaelic or Erse
Welsh
Manx
Cornish
Lallans
French (in the Channel Isles)

The one you may be most unfamiliar with is Lallans, a Germanic language. I have lived in a native Lallans region (the Scottish borders from Dumfriesshire to Roxburghshire). It is considered by experts as a language in its own right, although it has now absorbed a lot of corrupted English. I've great difficulty in understanding it (and certainly can't speak it), despite the English admixture and coming from that region. Robert Burns sprinkled a lot of Lallans words in his poetry and he was probably bilingual.

While writing this, I had a look at a few web sites and found that Lallans is also known as Scots (which I did not know: it certainly wasn't called that where I come from) and is practically the same as Ulster Scots mentioned earlier in this thread. This is reasonable, as many settlers in N. Ireland were forced there by the English from Dumfriesshire and have maintained their very bigoted form of rabid anti-Catholic Presbyterianism, which has caused so much of the troubles there (cf. Ian Paisley). In case you think this is sectarian, I'm also Presbyterian but a more liberal one!

[GNEP]

Interesting. Thanks Brian!

[Pace]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
I said Scots..

Nope, you said Scottish Gaelic Scots is closer to English, but is not (as far as I know) recognised as an official language.

Edit: Um, what Brian said basically

However, are you sure "Scots" is Germanic?

[Brian R.]

Originally posted by Paddy
England, Scotland and Wales = Britain

Britain + Northern Ireland = United Kingdom

United Kingom + All the off shore european islands (e.g. Isle of Man) = British Ilse (Although the Irish don't like that!)

It's amazing how many Irish refer to themselves as British

Ok, so who does the Queen rule over? England I suppose. What about the PM? Again England? Who rules the other parts of the UK?