The Matrix Reloaded

[leech]

Originally posted by efty
If you see the movie again you will understand how smith got in. Apparently Neo and the rest are still in the matrix or a different matrix with different rules specially made for the 0.01% of people that do not fit in.

Perfect way of saying it. Kind of like the 0.01% of peole who understood that ending? Does that mean soon we'll wake up in the alternate Matrix? Oh crap, but I just started modding my Computer case....

Leech

[Wombat]

I don't think you can say that with any certainty Efty. It's an easy conclusion to reach, but it leaves a lot of questions unanswered.

[Technoid]

Belwarrior & Efty:
Great work now you have ruined the movie for me

[efty]

Originally posted by Wombat
I don't think you can say that with any certainty Efty. It's an easy conclusion to reach, but it leaves a lot of questions unanswered.

That is why I said apparently. From what we have seen thus far this seems to be the case. There are other possibilities ofcourse which we could discuss. I only hope the final movie will clarify a few big holes from the first two movies. The bad thing about the movie is that if you do not watch the animatrix episodes you miss out a lot.

I am sorry Technoid for not putting a warning for spoilers.

[SitFlyer]

Originally posted by Technoid
Belwarrior & Efty:
Great work now you have ruined the movie for me

I agree. They totally ruined it for me too.

[Ssin]

Technoid & SitFlyer :
That's not all. At the end you'll see that Morpheus is actually Neo's father and Trinity is his sister.

[Umfriend]

Havent seen it yet, but is he not to have sex with Trinity? See how these hollywood brainwashers slip in all kinds of stuff into yer heads? Next you'll think it's OK to have sex with your sister......:grin:

[Gurm]

Originally posted by Ssin
Gurm :
- Why the hell should elves appear at Helms?
- The reason the Ents go to war is totaly different from the book.
- In the book (as I remember) Rohan people don't go to Helms, it's the remaining army that does.
- Why did wargs attack the moving convoy?
- I don't remember Theoden being "exorcised" by Gandalf but rather brought back to reason.

I can understand that you add some scenes that don't appear in the book for the sake of the screenplay what I don't accept is that you change the personality of characters.

Wow, you haven't read the book lately have you?

1. Elves went to Helm's deep in the book. Go read it again. The fact that Elrond's sons led them is immaterial since they were purposely left out of all three movies (too many characters already).

2. In the book, the Ents decided at Entmoot that they had to do something about Saruman, this is true. But honestly that's really not such a huge difference, and it was done to give Merry & Pippin more screen time. Do I like the fact that an Ent was "tricked" by hasty hobbits? Not really, but it's an understandable change.

3. The people of Rohan did, in fact, go to the mountain fastness up behind Helm's deep.

4. Why wouldn't wargs attack the moving convoy?

5. Theoden's conversion was dramatized. What is it with everyone and dramatization? I mean, SERIOUSLY here.

If those are your biggest complaints about the movie (and the only good one was the Ent problem) then you seriously haven't read the books in a LONG time, huh?

- Gurm

[Umfriend]

Elves went to helms deep??? Guess it is time again for me to read it again....

[Jon P. Inghram]

Elves did NOT go to Helm's Deep (at least not in TTT.) It was the Ents that assisted, by leading the Huorns (Ents that have became almost treelike) during the night to Helms's Deep to block off the retreat of the orcs. When Galdolf arrived with the army he was able to muster after riding all over Rohan, they drove the orcs into the forest that had suddendly appeared overnight in what had be a empty valley ... never to be seen again.

[Wombat]

Elrond's sons were the only elves that went to Helm's Deep. They brought the standard for Aragorn, and they didn't show up until the battle was over.

[impact]

Originally posted by efty
If you see the movie again you will understand how smith got in. Apparently Neo and the rest are still in the matrix or a different matrix with different rules specially made for the 0.01% of people that do not fit in.

Those that do not wish to be spoiled, please STOP READING THIS THREAD NOW.

-cutnpaste from another board-

I'll start here. First off, half your questions can be answered by this simple fact: there are 2 matrixes running side by side. The reason Neo chose door number two was because he realized this. The machines wouldn't just let humans sit around and destroy their civilization, as such, in the matrix 1, you have a choice to "wake up to the real world" or stay in it. This is where the oracle comes in. She was programmed to figure out how to keep humans in the matrix. With no choice human brains constantly kept trying to "wake up" from the dream they were in. They found the problem to be choice, and so they needed to implement on a subconscious level the choice to stay in the matrix 1.
HOWEVER, if you chose to reject this notion, ie Morpheus Zion crew, then you were spit out into the "real world", otherwise known as another ****ing matrix system.

When the matrix was perfect, no one would accept it. So to make humans stay in it, all that was needed to be done was to unbalance the equation, as Cornal Sanders pointed out. Hence, when you have an equation that isn't perfect, there will inherently be an anomaly of sorts. This is The One.

So, to fix the problem that an anomaly would cause in the programming of the matrix, the Architect integrates the one back into the system, takes his code, and recreates a more efficient matrix - and starts it over. Its an upgrade.

The reason that it would appear to you that the Oracle is suddenly not helping is easy, she was never really helping anyone. The entire point of the prophecy is to get the one to go to the origin so he can be re assimilated into the code, and the matrix improved. Subsequently, the entire point of the Zion matrix is to find the one - so that the anomaly can be contained, and the system stay stable.

As to the actually scene with Neo and the Architect. The entire bit that Whitey was going on about was that if Neo chose door 1, he would select 7 men 16 women(?) from the matrix to be unplugged, and set "free" into the Zion matrix. (Hence why in the first movie morpheus said that the prophecy dictated that in the beginning "it was the Architect who freed the first of us.") That was the 6th time that the architect had re designed the matrix, and the previous Neo had chosen those people to be freed.

If not going through door 1, then the anomalies would not be re integrated into the system. This poses the problem, as the system becomes unbalanced, eventually leading to its destruction. If you remember from your chemistry, an unbalanced system will increase in entropy until it is restarted or destroys itself. But that’s beside the point.

Neo realized all this. Where as the other One's did not realize that Zion was indeed in another matrix too, Neo did. As such, he went to go save humanity or some ****. This is why "he could feel them now" and he has ****ing EMP super powers.

Smith. Yeah. He was freed from the matrix system by Neo, well, because Neo killed him. Smith is now a roving program, and can duplicate himself at will. The deal with him is, he went into the body of a guy, and then downloaded himself into the Zion matrix, and that’s who you see at the very end of the movie on the stretcher (the guy who set off the EMP early, and sabotaged the counter attack plan dooha.) So anyways, it seems he will kill everyone in the end or something, looks to be good.

So far as Neo being Jesus, that is all based around the fact that he is beyond the Matrix. See, the matrix, as pointed out by the Architect, relies on the fact that Humans chose to stay in it. If they reject it, then they will be sent to the Zion one so on and so forth. Neo simply chooses not to believe the matrix. "Your mind makes it real," yeah, only if you let it. Neo can see the code, and he just wont let ‘it make it real’. So yeah, he can literally do whatever the **** he wants. If he believes it enough, he can give life in the matrix, because if you can think it, and almost rewrite the matrix code as you go along, then **** you are god.

----------------------------------------------

[impact]

and here's the final dialogue that confuses most people...
-----

The Architect - Hello, Neo.

Neo - Who are you?

The Architect - I am the Architect. I created the matrix. I've been waiting for you. You have many questions, and although the process has altered your consciousness, you remain irrevocably human. Ergo, some of my answers you will understand, and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question may be the most pertinent, you may or may not realize it is also irrelevant.

Neo - Why am I here?

The Architect - Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden to sedulously avoid it, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you, inexorably, here.

Neo - You haven't answered my question.

The Architect - Quite right. Interesting. That was quicker than the others.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Others? What others? How many? Answer me!"*

The Architect - The matrix is older than you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next, in which case this is the sixth version.

*Again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Five versions? Three? I've been lied too. This is bull****."

Neo: There are only two possible explanations: either no one told me, or no one knows.

The Architect - Precisely. As you are undoubtedly gathering, the anomaly's systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.

*Once again, the responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "You can't control me! **** you! I'm going to kill you! You can't make me do anything!"*

Neo - Choice. The problem is choice.

*The scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room*

The Architect - The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect, it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is as apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being, thus I redesigned it based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However, I was again frustrated by failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind, or perhaps a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus, the answer was stumbled upon by another, an intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.

Neo - The Oracle.

The Architect - Please. As I was saying, she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99.9% of all test subjects accepted the program, as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at a near unconscious level. While this answer functioned, it was obviously fundamentally flawed, thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly, that if left unchecked might threaten the system itself. Ergo, those that refused the program, while a minority, if unchecked, would constitute an escalating probability of disaster.

Neo - This is about Zion.

The Architect - You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.

Neo - Bull****.

*The responses of the other Ones appear on the monitors: "Bull****!"*

The Architect - Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it, and we have become exceedingly efficient at it.

*Scene cuts to Trinity fighting an agent, and then back to the Architects room.*

The Architect - The function of the One is now to return to the source, allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry, reinserting the prime program. After which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female, 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix, which coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.

Neo - You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.

The Architect - There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However, the relevant issue is whether or not you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this world.

*The Architect presses a button on a pen that he is holding, and images of people from all over the matrix appear on the monitors*

The Architect - It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were by design based on a similar predication, a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the one. While the others experienced this in a very general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-a-vis, love.

*Images of Trinity fighting the agent from Neos dream appear on the monitors*

Neo - Trinity.

The Architect - Apropos, she entered the matrix to save your life at the cost of her own.

Neo - No!

The Architect - Which brings us at last to the moment of truth, wherein the fundamental flaw is ultimately expressed, and the anomaly revealed as both beginning, and end. There are two doors. The door to your right leads to the source, and the salvation of Zion. The door to the left leads back to the matrix, to her, and to the end of your species. As you adequately put, the problem is choice. But we already know what you're going to do, don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction, the chemical precursors that signal the onset of emotion, designed specifically to overwhelm logic, and reason. An emotion that is already blinding you from the simple, and obvious truth: she is going to die, and there is nothing that you can do to stop it.

*Neo walks to the door on his left*

The Architect - Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness.

Neo - If I were you, I would hope that we don't meet again.

The Architect - We won't.

[impact]

<img src="http://www.thematrix-fr.levillage.org/avatar_stab_profil.gif">
/me likes


btw, matrix apparently is the first movie to accurately portray hacking... http://www.securityfocus.com/news/4831

[Jon P. Inghram]

I hope the last movie doesn't have an Arlington Road style "twist" at the end.