The Matrix Reloaded

[efty]

Anyone knows why the movie is R-rated?

[Wombat]

Although many things are in the "might do it" category, I'd say the tittie panning in the rave/orgy probably put a lock on the R rating.

[Gurm]

Also the somewhat extensive use of the F-word.

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Ok, seriously though - I really DO NOT think that they're in ANOTHER Matrix. I really don't. I don't buy it, and it's too pat. And it's also too contrived. There were no cues for it at all.

Neo was offered two choices.

1. Go to the source, **** up the machines but goodly, save Zion... and kill everyone connected to the Matrix.

2. Don't kill everyone connected to the Matrix, Zion is screwed, and he is SUPPOSED to "free" a bunch of people and go start a NEW Zion, with the blessing of the machines.

Every X years, there's a new Zion. The 1% of people who don't accept the Matrix end up being freed, and going to Zion. The machines tolerate them, and after X years a new "One" is born. The "One"s prime purpose is to be freed by the Zionites, and eventually to make the choice to save humanity, and doom the Zionites.

The Zionites (Morpheus et al) don't understand that the Prophecy is a contrivance... each time "The One" tells them that there's a prophecy - he's feeding them a line. Perpetuating the rule of the machines.

Problem here is twofold.

1. Neo and Agent Smith have a bizarre interaction. Although Smith is CLEARLY still on the side of the machines (his agent, after all, sabotaged the Zion defenses), he is something of a free spirit now.

2. Neo didn't play the way they wanted him to play... and Morpheus and Co. survived! That's BAD for the machines' plan.

So I seriously do NOT think that they're in "another Matrix". Neo's in a COMA for chrissake. But there ARE a lot of unanswered questions.

- Gurm

[Wombat]

I don't think that Smith is on the side of the machines. He's looking out for himself. The other agents were surprised to see him, and he was *this* close to stabbing Neo during his stay in Zion.

[Gurm]

I don't think it's clear that the human that Smith infected (what was his name again?) _IS_ Smith now. He'd have no way to keep in touch with the rest of the Smith program anyway... although apparently now Neo can affect the machines remotely as well. Interesting possibilities.

I'm not 100% discounting the "other Matrix" idea. I just don't see a lot of support for it. I didn't see any hints at ALL of it in the movie... so unless y'all know something I don't know...

- Gurm

[Wombat]

Just that so far, it's the best reason for Neo to be able to feel the sentinels, as he said he could.

Smith is there in Baine somehow. The way he cut himself with the knife, it seemed like Smith was trying to experience the flesh.

[Jon P. Inghram]

I'm of the opinion (not having seen the movie, but based on what I've read here ) that it's really just a simulation. You see, humans in the "real world" invented AI, but unlike in most movies they were smart enough to realize they ought to run a computer simulation of it first to make sure it doesn't go berserk and try to take over the world. At the end of the third movie they clue the simulated machines in on it, and then turn it off, knowing that version of the AI program probably shouldn't be put in any position of power or control.

Ok, that’s actually just what I’m hoping they’ll do... a nice twist from the AGES OLD CLICHE OF AI/ROBOTS/MACHINES TAKING OVER THE WORLD.

The title of the third movie makes me suspicous too… if it was Matrox: Revolution I’d think they break free or something… but it’s Revolutions --- As in revolving, not revolting, and at the end the machines will just start another new Matrix with the info they learned from the current version.

[Wombat]

Originally posted by Jon P. Inghram
I'm of the opinion (not having seen the movie, but based on what I've read here ) that it's really just a simulation. You see, humans in the "real world" invented AI, but unlike in most movies they were smart enough to realize they ought to run a computer simulation of it first to make sure it doesn't go berserk and try to take over the world. At the end of the third movie they clue the simulated machines in on it, and then turn it off, knowing that version of the AI program probably shouldn't be put in any position of power or control.

Interesting, but I don't think I can swallow it, after watching the Second Renaissance.

[Jon P. Inghram]

Yeah, it'd require too much from the writers of the story to come up with something clever like that.

But, don't forget that the stuff in the Animatrix is all fake too, because everything that's in Zion was made up by the machines.

I think the problem is they're trying to turn a movie that required suspension of disbelief to maintain its integrity into some strange kind of "thinking mans" type movie.

[Gurm]

No, no. I honestly think that each and every time, the machines set "The One" and his chosen few loose, and let them go forge their own Zion... each time choosing a new location... sort of with their "blessing". And if it gets wiped out BEFORE the new 'One' shows up, so much the better.

Problem is that this particular "One", Neo, isn't very keen on playing by their rules.

It _is_ sad to know that Kid bit it though... after watching the Animatrix, I know he's irritating but still!

- Gurm

[Wombat]

Originally posted by Gurm
No, no. I honestly think that each and every time, the machines set "The One" and his chosen few loose, and let them go forge their own Zion... each time choosing a new location... sort of with their "blessing". And if it gets wiped out BEFORE the new 'One' shows up, so much the better.

I think the machines need the One. They use him to make the Matrix, or the machines, better some how. So the machines need Zion too, to free the One.

[Gurm]

Yes. "The One" is key to the continuation of the Matrix. He has code (or access to code) that is crucial to the continuation of the Matrix. Also he allows people to have choice, which is crucial to the continuation of the Matrix.

Of course I like the observation made by Brent Sienna from PVP, which is... why use humans? We're hardly the most efficient heat sources on the planet. Why not use cows? The Matrix would be easier, too - just a big endless sunny field of grass!

'Course then it'd be called the "Mootrix".

- Gurm

[GT98]

Well I saw the movie last night....I liked it, not quite as good as first, but still worth the 8 bucks and I'm getting it on DVD when it comes out. Only annoying part was that I had to wait though 10 minutes of stupid credits to see the Trailer.


More thoughts on the movie and further more about the "the one", I don't think that the machines have a need for the The One to exist, since its an error that pops up into the "program" every X years, since the Matrix can't be perfect. If it was, they would have the problems they had before with the "perfect matrix" they did the first time.

[Gurm]

Trailer... do you mean that there was a Matrix Revolutions trailer that I didn't wait around for? ARGH!

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As for the need for "The One". In the first movie Agent Smith says that people wouldn't accept the perfect Matrix. Our minds refused to believe in a reality that didn't have pain and suffering.

So in the current Matrix there are two problems.

1. 1% (or 1% of 1%) of humans refuse to believe in the computer-generated reality. This number apparently accelerates over time, reaching a critical mass after the emergence of "The One".

2. "The One" keeps popping up. Humans are grown instead of born, genetics has precious little to do with it, and apparently there's a flaw in the "people growing" algorithm, that results in anomalies of various levels (the kids in the Oracle's apartment, the runner in "World Record", etc.) and finally in "The One" every X years (the source said he can't put a number on it and prefers to think of it in cycles from the time of the birth of "The One").

Anyway... apparently there are some other things going on. Remember that this is all taking place in a future substantially past our own... several hundred years. Apparently some people have some fairly well developed ESP and/or prescience.

I think that Neo's run-in with the machines at the end of this movie was NOT a case of "look they're in another Matrix" but simply that his ESP powers are developing. He saw what would happen to Trinity before it happened, he knew what was coming... and those could NOT have been computer-generated images because they played out EXACTLY that way despite all the random variables involved.

- Gurm

[Ssin]

My opinion :

- Smith is some sort of contagion IN the matrix and somehow can spread out of the matrix. That's what he meant when he said that Neo set him free. He set Smith' free of all bounds inside and outside the Matrix. Funny though that the very same Smith spoke about humans being the cancer spreading in first episode since he's doing the same in the 2nd.

- Neo is more and more growing godlike. He sees the Matrix and can interfere with it although he cannot change it. Interesting enough, Smith seems to be growing in power and becoming close to Neo's power. But Smith spreads when Neo grows. I think he's going to be Neo's bigger threat in third episode. He is the anti-hero.

- In the meantime, Smith can get out of the Matrix, Neo at the end can have the powers outside the Matrix, hence he can disable the the sentinels by producing something like an EMP.
The very first sign of Neo having special abilities outside the Matrix is his dreams. He can already live without the Oracle. He can predict future for himself and the one he loves.

- There's no matrix inside the matrix, there's simply higher level of operation, a bit like different CPU mode and different program able to put the CPU in those different modes. Those programs (KeyMaker and the BodyGuard) can move between different locations WITHOUT perturbing the Matrix.

That's all folks, start the flame thrower and shoot away

Gurm :
- Elven did'nt actually fight at Helms.
- The fact the Ents didn't move first hand change their personality from "ok-we're-good-old-ents-and-we're-going-to-help-coz-everyone-is-implicated" to "we-don't-care". Leaving more screen time of Pippin and Merry is Ok, changing ents behavior is another.
Same thing as doing something purposedfully or being forced to. I wouldn't like to be forced to do something.