Mel Gibson's "The Passion" trailer.....

[Dr Mordrid]

If the trailer is any indication of the movie I think we have a major Oscar contender here....

http://www.movie-list.net/ThePassion.mov

The QT clip IS downloadable but about 23 megs in size so be patient, it's worth it

If you have a Matrox display card set DVDMAX to preserve the aspect ratio and you'll get a high quality letterbox to the TV.

Dr. Mordrid

[dshumake]

Nice clip. Although, it looks like they got the nails in the wrong place.

dshumake

[KvHagedorn]

Re: Mel Gibson's "The Passion" trailer.....

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
If the trailer is any indication of the movie I think we have a major Oscar contender here....

There's no way a movie about the death of Christ will get an oscar in today's hollywood; doesn't matter how good it is. It's not 1959 anymore.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by dshumake
Nice clip. Although, it looks like they got the nails in the wrong place.

dshumake

Yep, true. I believe they went through the wrist, not the palm.

[GT98]

hmm aren't they doing this movie competly in Latin or some other langauge and aren't even having subtitles to it? Looks interesting but I'll get it on DVD if its like that.

[KvHagedorn]

Interesting if it's in Latin.. The people in it certainly don't look too middle-eastern, BTW.

[Gurm]

1. Jesus and his disciples, ESPECIALLY when he was on the cross, undoubtedly spoke HEBREW. (Damn Catholics, trying to rewrite history - didn't you know that Jesus' brother James was the FIRST POPE? ROFLMAO.)

2. Yeah, nails in the WRONG places.

3. If there are no subtitles, and it's all in Latin... nobody will go.

4. There is some debate as to whether the ROMANS ever even spoke Latin. It's argued that 90% of Romans spoke Italian.

Gpar_

[Jammrock]

The movie is all in Aremaic (sp?) and Hebrew I believe. Maybe Latin, too, I don't know. I just know it's not English.

Yep, true. I believe they went through the wrist, not the palm.

That's a very common belief these days. The wrist offers more support for the skin not to tear and the body fall off, plus there's a nice major nerve in the wrist to make it more painful.

However, Mel is a devout Catholic, so the nails go in the hand, period.

From the trailer alone you can tell Mel put a lot of his own passion into the film. Whether it's an Oscar contender or not, we'll have to wait and see.

Jammrock

[Dr Mordrid]

On the wrist/palm debate:

Those who believe in the wrists were used point to some victims found with nails in the wrist and that this would bear the weight of the victim.

Hand nailing was also used, but the nail didn't bear the weight as there was a restraint tying the upper arm to the crossbar for that purpose. Unfortunately Gibson didn't show these restraints in his film.

Which was used in Jesus's execution is up for grabs; so whichever side says they "know", doesn't.

Dr. Mordrid

[paulcs]

Apparently, the dialogue will be in Aramaic and Latin with subtitles. Gibson is said to have changed his mind. Members of a Christian focus group that screened the filem actually complained about "too many subtitles." The cut they saw included translations for everything, including stuff like soldiers saying "hey! Move it." This, of course, wasn't a final cut, so I expect this will change.

Aramaic was the language of commerce in the region. I've read it was adopted by the Jews after the Babylonian exile. There actually is a book called "Aramaic Made EZ":

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0967598915/ref%3Dpd%5Fsl%5Faw%5Falx-jeb-6-1%5Fbook%5F423068%5F1/104-7565140-3890314

What's next? Asyrian for Dummies?

Like most languages, Latin had its dialects. The Centurians and occupation government almost certainly spoke high Latin, as that was the language of state and the military. (We still use a lot of Latin expressions in matters of government and the law.) The Latin spoken on the streets of Rome, particularly in the later centuries of the Western Empire, probably sounded a whole lot like Italian.

U.S. Bishops' Secretariat for Ecumenical and Interreligious Affairs have raised concerns about the script, as they feel it shifts the blame for Christ's execution from the Roman governer to the Jews. The Anti-Defamation League has sided with the Secretariat, which claimed "the screenplay reviewed was replete with objectionable elements that would promote anti-Semitism."

Paul

[GNEP]

It just sounds like the script is following Matthew if it makes Pilate look like he was put in an impossible position. (Or was it one of the other gospels? I forget...)

[Gurm]

Pretty much. It _was_ the fault of the Jewish clergy at the time.



Gpar_

[Dr Mordrid]

That and that Pilate was trying not to have zealot riots on his watch.....

Dr. Mordrid

[paulcs]

Pilate taking the path of least resistance is one thing. Claiming that a Roman governor was coerced into or forced to execute an innocent man is another. It sounds to me like a convenient distortion of Roman power and practices in the region.

The Romans considered Jewish practices barbaric and its high priests loopy shamans. While they allowed for some wiggle room with respect to a literal interpretation of Roman law in Judea, I suspect they didn't take kindly to threatened rebellions. We know what the Romans did when the Jews rebelled.

I just can't consider the gospels history. I believe they were written by very different people over the course of a couple of centuries, and some of those people were Greek or Roman. Even though the Church did some picking and choosing, the "official" gospels still don't always agree on events. I do know that the line between heresy and sedition in the Empire was thin to the point of being non-existant. However, they did realize the Jews were hardcore monotheists and would not accept the Emperors as religious figures or dieties. To keep the peace, they looked the other way -- something I don't think they did with other conquered populations.

I can't say what happened. The Jewish Roman historian, Flavius Josephus, wrote that Christ was arrested by the Romans because of an "accusation" made by leading men, and Pilate condemned him to the cross. It's not a intellectual stretch to see how the Romans could find Christ guilty of treason and/or sedition. From the Roman perspective, he was.

It's been reported that the early version of the screenplay that was reviewed had the cross assembled in the temple, Christ being beaten by Jews before the crucifixion, and Jews paying "blood money" to have Christ crucified. Mel Gibson and ICON Productions, according to an ADL press release, showed a willingness to take various concerns about the screenplay into account.

Paul

[Jammrock]

A politically correct version of the crusifiction...eh gads.

It will be an interesting movie to see. I'm sure I'll see it.

Jammrock