Great Britons

[KvHagedorn]

I'm not saying that philosophically he was not anti-Semitic, this is well known. In practice, he was not. The thing that upsets me is the idea that being "anti-Semitic" is somehow the worst of all crimes. This is the brainwashing effect I was talking about. Many Greeks are anti-Turk, many Poles hate Russians, etc. etc., but this is somehow unimportant. It is only enmity against groups who are organized that is wrong. "Judaism in Music" is really a rather inferior piece of philosophy, but Wagner does express a point of view that was not uncommon at the time. The point is not to deny, but to forgive. If ADL and their ilk cannot do this, they prove most of Wagner's points themselves.

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Brian R.
My statement about Wagner vs Beethoven and Bach had nothing to do with his politics, only his music. I don't believe he made anywhere near the contribution to music that the other two did. Advances in length, volume, quantity, and subject are not reason for inclusion in an elite group.

Many feel this way. Technically, Bach and Beethoven are superior from a certain point of view. Wagner did not play by the same rules..

[Brian R.]

Wagner is great, no doubt, but it is tough to hang with the big dogs...

[stcynic]

The metaphor I have heard about Wagner (the composer, not the person) was that he was a beautiful sunset that some people mistook for a beautiful sunrise. Which is to say Wagner worked at the end and _within_ the Romantic period (and the "rules" one might associate with it).

Beethoven on the other hand worked at and practically was the beginning of the Romantic period (read that enough and it might start to make sense). He broke the old rules and _became_ most of the new ones.

Speaking of rule-breakers, is there any truth to the stories that Bach introduced the use of one's thumbs in the playing of keyboard instruments? Sounds pretty fantastic to me.