Dog Training

[Brian Ellis]

A wee while ago, on another thread, someone was asking about dog training. I've developed, over the years, a kinda sorta technique with minimal violence and trying to understand better the needs of a dog in its relationship with us. In particular, how to establish us as the alpha leaders of the household, without formally being able to put it into words.

Now I find someone has gone much farther in roughly the same direction and has put it into words, one Jan Fennell. She has written two books. The first is what I'd consider as mandatory reading for every dog owner, The Dog Listener (you can find it at Amazon etc.). This is an explanation of how she came to develop her method, of "listening to the dog", comparing the behaviour of domestic dogs with various wild dogs, especially wolves, and including humans in the dog pack. She then goes on with "Amichien Bonding" to developing the relationship whereby the dog tries to be the alpha leader of the family, thereby causing all the problems we are familiar with. The bonding re-establishes the hierarchy, so that the dog becomes subordinate to the humans and therefore does as you want and not as he would, if you let him. This is done without any cruelty. This system works! She gives many examples of how she has changed the lives of many problem dogs (including her own) for the better and thus saved some from euthanasia.


Her second book is a sequel of additional practical advice, especially for specific problems.

She has a web site at http://www.janfennellthedoglistener.com/

Finally, I have read the "readers' reviews" of her books at Amazon UK and Amazon USA. They are remarkably favourable, except for one on each, both written by professional dog behaviourists whom I suspect are worried that Amichien Bonding may take business away from them!

If you own a dog (or a dog owns you), then please beg, borrow, buy or steal a copy of at least her first book.

Edit: I forgot to mention that her first book is #166 in the popularity list of all books sold by Amazon UK. No doubt those horrors of Harry Potter have beaten her in the ratings, but, bloody hell, a book about animal care being so popular???

[DukeP]

Why train a dog?
Our dog never recieved any training (not unlike the rest of the family).

Off course he DID adapt to the reality of not having opposed thumbs, not having a drivers licens, and not having to shave.

Did that all by himself, he did.



~~DukeP~~

[Brian Ellis]

You are quite right, it is not the dog that needs training, it is the owners

I can't say you seem to have learnt to shave, either! I don't know whether your thumbs are opposed or you have a driving licence, though.

I'll bet your dog can eat a coupe Danemark faster than you, though (and possibly be sick afterwards!)

Seriously, do you think a Rottweiler or a Staffordshire Pit Bull and its owners that had no training whatsoever could be let loose in public? Ask any postman! I've always maintained that all dogs must be able to fit in with human society at all times, including within the family; if they don't, they start to be a liability. Dogs love to be trained to do little tasks, such as fetching your slippers when you come in. It makes them feel even more wanted.

Sorry, a dog that misbehaves by jumping up at people, for example, is trying to assert his dominance in the pecking order and this can be the thin end of the wedge. I do believe in gentle training, if only a surefire 'come' and 'sit' as an absolute minimum, in conjunction with his place in the pack. Please read the book.

[Dr Mordrid]

No training necessary here. Spike is just another person in the house, limited only by his inability to speak, use the potty or sit (or is it FIT?) on a chair for dinner

Dr. Mordrid

[DukeP]

Brian, I disagree.

The problem isnt that some dogs require training, the problem is that some dogs should be removed from existance, or at least handled like the purposebuild tools they are.

In Denmark, several types of dogs are illegal.
A lot of people have been banned from owning dogs. Ever.

Its not the fault of the dogs.
Its just not their enviroment. Most dogs arent even one tiny bit "natural".
If let loose anywhere, 80% off all dogs would prob starve to death, or die from one or other genetically introduced "cute" or "hate" factors introduced. Small dogs can cough their eyes out. Literally. Some dogs get the strangest diseases and faults, unless given a targeted cost or special medical attention.

All in all, most dogs are a clearcut example of genetic modification gone wrong, in every sense of the word "wrong".
Its only a small comfort that this have taken place over the last couple of centuries.


~~DukeP~~

PS: My dog did use chairs. He never really trusted ceilings (being more into cavelike structures). He often slept whis his head beneath a chair, or as much of him as would fit beneath the coffetable (much to the chargrin of my mother, and guests that wasnt fast enough to grab their cup when he decided to reemerge).
My dog was an original New foundland dog. He never really attained the size of his price winning farther, but he did reach just shy of 100kg in his prime, settling on around 80kg when he grew older (and more comfortable).
Oh. In the summer, he caught his own fish. Usually he wasnt that hungry, so he would find my mother and insist on her preparing his catch - he preferred boilt, with rice - and easy on the vegetables.

[DukeP]

Brian: I do agree on most of what you write.

Yes, dogs just shouldnt jump up at you. It means that they either want to **** you, dominate you, both or they are just desperate for attention.

None of the above is what you would like in a houshold dog.
None of the above is what you would get, if you aquired the right type of dog for you (if that exists - some people just shouldnt own living things).

I have lived besides dogs the first 25 years of my life.
Most of these have been healthy selfsufficient and confident dogs.
Everybody needs to feel that they can DO something, dogs as well as people. Dogs are a bit easier to trick into believing that they do, in fact, matter.

Ever watch a "police" search dog? They are happy, happy, happy. They MIGHT be over eager (especially if young) - but then they ARE belonging to the "tool" type of dogs. Not for everybody to own. Same goes for hunting dogs.

"Family" dogs.... Well, if You invited somebody into your family, you prob should treat them like family.

My (our) dogs where an equal part of the family. They decided as much as everyone of us - if somewhat by proxy.

My parents where always safe to let my little sister and I go exploring, wherever we where - as long as the dog was with us. He was our "older" brother (and possibly the wisest as well).
I remember trecking through Venice, with my sister in hand, dog trailing us a discrete meter. He went Gondoliering with us, he eat pizza with us, he told us when it was time to go home, and let us back to the hotel. I think I was 13.

~~DukeP~~