Pictures show babies smile in the womb

[Brian R.]

Putting up a dividing line at which an embryo or fetus attains "life" status is difficult.

[az]

Yes, very.

AZ

[Gurm]

Yep. But as far as I'm concerned, if it ain't got a central nervous system it ain't a sentient entity.

Plus, all this "smiling in the womb" stuff doesn't happen because the kid is happy. "Social smiling", due to happiness, doesn't happen until they're several months old. Smiling in the womb is from something else - when kids are first born, they smile from GAS.

- Gurm

[ZokesPro]

Well you do learn certains traits of your mother, like the way you handle stress. The birth itself is actually quite traumatising for a child. I mean imagine being seperated from your safety shell that loved you. It would seem pretty intense for a newborn, especially since it's brain is not entirely developped.

[Indiana]

Originally posted by Gurm
Yep. But as far as I'm concerned, if it ain't got a central nervous system it ain't a sentient entity.

Plus, all this "smiling in the womb" stuff doesn't happen because the kid is happy. "Social smiling", due to happiness, doesn't happen until they're several months old. Smiling in the womb is from something else - when kids are first born, they smile from GAS.

- Gurm

You have to be VERY VERY careful here - or you end up with claiming mentally disadavataged people are no "real life", either - then it's just one little step to the Euthanasie of Adolf Hitler...

(Yes, i'm a pro-life'er)

[Nowhere]

Originally posted by az
Yes, very.

AZ

Unfortunatelly...
I think personally that abortion shouldn't be completely prohibited (as it is theoretically here now, medical causes excluded of course) but it can't be as easy as removing tooth.
Determinig how hard/easy should it be and from which point it should be impossible is extremelly tough dillema...

[Gurm]

Define "mentally disadvantaged".

Retarded people are still people. People that have a tendency to get violent for no reason and break shit while screaming and drooling yes, but people nonetheless.

People born with no upper brain function aren't people, they're bodies that breathe as a reflex.

I feel the same way about completely braindead people after a stroke or accident - if the brain has stopped working, the person is GONE, and the plug ought to be pulled. Do your mourning and move on. Keeping a vegetable alive is cruel to everyone.

- Gurm

[orangejulius]

Another <a href="http://us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030912/capt.1063398357.britain_lon810.jpg">picture</a>, shows the baby really chortling.

[orangejulius]

From a related <a href="http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?c=&p=smile+womb" title="related Guardian, BBC, Chicago Sun-Times articles">Guardian article</a>:
"The reaction is overwhelming especially with fathers, who rarely get involved. Before they sat in the corner. Now they really show emotion. I enjoy scanning and looking at babies. It is so informative about babies and behaviour. Every scan is an adventure."

[Dr Mordrid]

Originally posted by Brian R.
I didn't mean respond to extenal stimuli, I meant does a fetus respond to non-stimulated emotional states of the mother? Hearing music and responding to it is not the stimulus I had in mind.

For example, if a mother is happy, does the baby smile in response? or if the mother cries, does the baby feel sad?

Our daughter-in-laws sonographer did an experiment at her prompting; play music through headphones placed on her abdomen while scanning. No, it didn't interfere as the wavelength was different than the scanner.

Kaden started doing the underwater boogie as soon as the CD started playing and persisted until it was gone.

The CD: "The Lion King: Rhythm of the Pridelands", but especially Lebo M's version of "The Lion Sleeps Tonight".

Gestational age: 8 weeks

To this day (age=4 months) Kaden laughs like crazy, kicks and in general has a great time listening to that CD, so don't tell me they "don't respond to external stimuli" early on in gestation.

Summary: he not only has great taste in music but had it very early on.

Also; when Margie was pregnant with Erik she felt him respond to music played through her abdomen at about 8 weeks as well, but with her it was Mozart and Ravel.

Dr. Mordrid

[Ozbreeze]

i played starcraft alot *blushing*...more than i should have when i was pregnant with my son. he would flip all over the place to the sounds. the same day we brought him home from the hospital someone turned it on, his little head turned right around to it. he's 5 now and he's the biggest starcraft nut.

[Gurm]

When my mother was pregnant with my brother, it was 1978 and Star Wars was still in theaters. She literally had to LEAVE the theater because he went abso-friggin-lutely NUTS over the music. Now 24 and a graduate of the Westminster Choir College, he still has a rather decided predilection for John Williams.

- Gurm

[Dr Mordrid]

Yeah....they don't respond to external stimuli....uhhh-huh

Dr. Mordrid