ECO-terrorist arrested in SUV burnings....

[Dr Mordrid]

About damned time....

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030913/APN/309130519

Now if they can only get him to turn on the organizations that promote and encourage ELF's activities.

Dr. Mordrid

[Jammrock]

Well ... I can't say as I blame whoever burned the H2's. Those vehivles are poorly made and guzzy gas like nothing since the 70's muscle cars. I hate em. But then again I hate all SUV's in urban/suburban settings.

Down with the SUV, bring on the Mini's!!

Jammrock

[gt40]

Originally posted by Jammrock

Down with the SUV, bring on the Mini's!!

Jammrock

Ever tried towing a boat, or getting to the cottage in 3 ft of snow ,or packing the kids and all your camping equipment for 2 weeks with one of these?

[K6-III]

If you need to tow a boat, isn't it easier just to rent one for the 2 weeks or so that you need it...

Otherwise, AWD is fine, or even better, for snow driving. Subaru and Volvo make some fine AWD cars that can get you through the snow. If you need to take kids and camping equipment along, they also make AWD wagons...

[gt40]

We started looking for an SUV a couple of years ago - starting with the smaller ones (Escape, tribute, etc). There was nothing available that would fit the dog cage, and all the gear other than going to a larger vehicle. We do use the inlaws cottage quite often, and believe me, these smaller wagons/SUV's do not have the ground clearance to tackle the snow that often confronts us in the winter (no snow removal service) - the vehicle ends up sitting on top of the snow.
Then there's the problem of my wife liking to pack EVERYTHING we own for even the shortest excusion.
We endend up with a Navigator - and it's not all that bad on fuel - I have friends with a pathfinder that is much worse on fuel economy.
oh yeah, and it barely knows there's a 3000lb race car behind it

As for AWD, I've seen ppl getting stuck on an inclined driveway with the front wheels on ice with these (usually the front and rear wheels are copuled through a viscous liquid of some sort)- nothing beats an old fashion true 4WD offroad.

[Wombat]

Originally posted by gt40
(usually the front and rear wheels are copuled through a viscous liquid of some sort)- nothing beats an old fashion true 4WD offroad.

Which is why you get a Subaru

[Grail]

Or a REAL vehicle designed for towing

Like a truck. Extended crew cab truck that can fit the dog cage, all your wife's earthly belongings (maybe???). Especially with a canopy on the back.
Trucks also have real ground clearance. If it is too high, then a simple, moderate drop kit would probably help out in both handling and height...
OT = Everytime I drive a SUV, I feel soo uneasy. Too damned high strung for it's own good, very sloppy suspension. Even the mid-sized SUV's (Escape. Parent's own) still have that feeling.

[gt40]

Had a full size extended cab 4x4, just didnt work (too cold for the dog in the cap .
We got the gator for less than an explorer (demo) - plus all the services were paid for 4 yrs 80,000 k.
If it was me, I'd still have the truck.

[MultimediaMan]

ELF = Taliban

[Jammrock]

Originally posted by gt40
Ever tried towing a boat, or getting to the cottage in 3 ft of snow ,or packing the kids and all your camping equipment for 2 weeks with one of these?

And how many SUV owners truly need one for that?

Like I said, in urban (city) and suburban settings, SUV's are nothing more than gas guzzling dangers. If you have a real NEED for an SUV or truck then I have no issue. 3 feet of snow in an area that the snow doesn't get plowed, and the snows on the ground for 6+ months a year, no problem. Do lots of towing and cargo carrying, no big deal to get one. You have a need.

If someone buys a Ford Excursion so they think your 2 kids feel safe, they need to be bitch slapped until some sense comes into their empty heads. Get a Volvo. They are cheaper than SUV's, drive better, just as tough, better handling and better fuel economy. If 99% of your truck or SUV need involves commuting to work (this bugs me the most), get a damn Mini Cooper, or a Toyota Corrola. You are a commuter, get a damn commuter car.

Suburban SUV'ers piss me off

Jammrock

[K6-III]

Amen to Jammrock!!!

I, on the other hand, am now completely car free! I bike everywhere, although winter in Minnesota may make that unpleasant.

(May look into acquiring a trike for winter cycling)

Notice, above I mentioned that you could rent for that 1 time per year you actually need it.

The rest of the time the volvo or subaru awd wagon would be plenty sufficient...

[bsdgeek]

I used to bike for my primary mode of transportation, but after a while Oklahoma summers get to you.

[Dr Mordrid]

To put a perspective on this for those outside of the US and those in the US outside of the midwest;

Literally millions of people in Michigan (and some out of staters); rural, suburban and urban, take advantage of SUV's by using them to get their gear to our 2000+ miles of shorelines and hunting/fishing seasons. The activities they take part in run year round.

The cargo they haul up north, usually to seasonal homes or rental cottages & RV parks, include boats, travel trailers and flatbed trailers for motorcycles, jet skis and ATV's, dollies for hauling up small cars for use once up north.

There are well over 800,000 registered boats in Michigan with the distribution by class/size is almost flat; with just as many people owning boats over 30 feet as own boats under 16 feet.

One third of boat owners own seasonal homes (cottages to full sized houses) which amounts to 6% of all housing units in the state of Michigan. Yes; a LOT of people in Michigan own two homes. Not bad for a blue collar state.

You can't haul all of this at all with cars and not even very well with SUV's the size of an Explorer or pickups the size of a Dakota or Ranger. They can only haul about half the weight of many boats and trailers.

Enough Michiganders & out of staters do this that on a long holiday weekend the traffic jam runs from Detroit to Pinconning along I-75....some 140 miles....where the freeway splits to go up the east coast and center of the state (I-75N and US 23N). These roads get so crowded at the start of deer season that sometimes its faster to drive across the state and drive up the west coast then cross the state back to I75/US23 when you reach the latitude you want to end up at.

This doesn't even take into account that in the norther parts of Michigan (Bay City and up), much of Minnesota and Wisconsin, the Dakotas, Iowa and many rocky mountain states have so much deep snow that without SUV's and large 4x4 pickups you couldn't get around at all.

Accumulated snowfall near out cottage (40 miles north of Oscoda) is often 6 feet and it stays there all winter save for the roads. They often have to clear those with bulldozers.

Dr. Mordrid

[DukeP]

Heh.
I have a small 4wd driven Suzuki Vitara. Not the new ones, but the old ones, with bladed suspension, chasisframe and a small high rpm engine. In fact, my car is 19 years of age. It have driven through all kinds of weathers, it has pulled my diving clubs 1.5ton boat trailer (all the way down the beach into the sea).

Yes, its noisy (the wheels are square, the rubberthingies around the doors havent been there for some years, and the bearings are, well, alone!).
Yes its pretty darn self aware, when it comes to steering (I call it "Statistical steering", the course is based on averages).

But. Its still fast, still does 8500 rpms before electronic cutback, and it still drives 14.5 kilometers per liter of gasoline.

I love it.

I used to drive 4wd races in a car like it (actually the standard edition, mine is a bit longer). I won 90% of the races I was in. The only real contender was the Mercedes "gelindewagon"(?).
But it had a retail price that was a full 8 times as much.
Actually the Suzuki cars won the european championship soo many times in row (8, I think), that LandRover stopped arranging the tournament.

Ah well. Those where the days.
Today You cant by anything close. Modern cars have ABS breaks, Powersteering, Aircondition, Airbags, etc.
Baah, I say. All that junk weight to darn much. My car weighs less than one ton. Less is more.

Im ranting, I know. Sorry.


~~DukeP~~

[K6-III]

I live in Minnesota and I assure you that SUV's are more of a hazard than anything else in the Twin Cities due to increased braking distances due to extra mass.

My front-wheel-drive Mazda MX6 often did much better than SUV's on the road.

Subaru AWD cars never had problems in regard to going through deep snow in the twin cities.

I can see AWD as useful. The greater ground clearance could be justified in Alaska, or where the roads are cleaned with less frequency, and where the density of cars is sufficiently low such as to justify increased braking distances.

More or less, in urban areas, it makes NO SENSE whatsover to have SUV's.

If one truly needs all-weather commuting, use public transportation, as it is about as all-weather as it gets...especially if rail based...