Fed Court orders Padilla released

[Wombat]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13579-2003Dec18.html

About damn time. Now let's see if Bush continues to ignore the rights of citizens.

[Dr Mordrid]

All of this goes to Article 1 Section 9 of the Constitution which states in part;

The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended unless in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it.

The judges of the 2nd District failed to take into account that in the War Powers declarations voted by Congress such athority was given:

the President is authorized to use allnecessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations or persons.

As such the ruling by the 9th District court re: Guantanimo is very unlikely to stand since it's the most reversed Federal court in the nation (~80% of its judgements being reversed at last count) once its cases hit the Supreme Court.

Also remember that theSupreme Court has in the past been very unwilling to overturn war powers, including Roosevelts suspension of Habeas Corpus during WWII.

Dr. Mordrid

[Wombat]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid

The ruling by the California court is the least likely to stand at the Supreme Court level since it's the most reversed Federal court in the nation (~80% of its judgements being reversed at last count)

Dr. Mordrid

Two things: The highest number I saw was 75%. Second, that is of the cases that SCOTUS decides to review, the great majority of 9th Circuit decisions are declined review.

[Dr Mordrid]

1. I did forget the exact figure which is why I used the "~" = "about". Still; do you think a 5% difference at that level makes a whit of difference when discussing about how often this court is reversed on high level cases? I don't.

Let's not forget this is the same court that was reversed re: the California recall election. That was an irrational ruling made by only 3 judges out of a much larger body and this ruling isn't any different.

2. Do you really think these casees aren't going to get a Supreme Court review?

3. The only reason most of the 9th District's cases don't get reviewed is becuase they are cases that don't affect foreign policy.

In such cases the Supreme Court has been very deferential to the political branches, especially during national emergencies and war.

Dr. Mordrid

[Wombat]

Re: 2. That's the whole point. If SCOTUS agrees, they'll just decline to hear it. I could see that happening, depends what else they have on the possible docket.

[Dr Mordrid]

SCOTUS makes room for reviews that affect national or foreign policy, especially during war.

Dr. Mordrid

[Wombat]

What war? The 2nd Appellate specifically turned that argument down.

[The PIT]

I guess Holy wars don't count.

[Dr Mordrid]

Originally posted by Wombat
What war? The 2nd Appellate specifically turned that argument down.

The 2nd Appelate was wrong.

Both the war in Iraq and against AQ were authorized by Congress under the War Powers Act.

Once a War Powers resolution is passed by both houses, and both were with huge majorities, then the President has full wartime authrority as quoted above.

This is where the 2nd Appelate is going to fall on it face since with full Congressional War Powers authoriity being given SCOTUS is very unlikely to contradict the elected branches.

Dr. Mordrid

[rylan]

I hope that at least the ultra left 9th circuit court in CA gets its decision reversed. I find it absurd that they are saying that the NON-citizen terrorists being held in Guantanimo should be given full rights to free council and protections of the constitution that are for citizens.

[cjolley]

These cases are very different.
The GITMO people better learn to live with thier current accomodations.
There's no way that ruling will stand.

Padilla's case scares me for my own sake.
Bush et al are claming the ability to simply declare a citizen a threat to the security of the US and cause them to vanish.
That is virtually an invitation to abuse by future administrations.
I think and hope the Supreme Court will side with freedom.
chuck

[Dr Mordrid]

This and future administrations would need a War Powers declaration by Congress in order to get around Article 1 Section 9 & repeat what's been done to Padilla.

Don't forget that this is not the first time this has been done. Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus during the civil war and Roosevelt virtually suspended the Constitution in his national emergency declaration at the start of WWII.

Dr. Mordrid

[cjolley]

Do you know of a good source of info on the Padilla case?
The news outlets have mixed it in with the GITMO case so much it's hard to find any detail about the actual arguments.
It sounded to me from what little there was that they were arguing Bush had that power simply by virtue of his position as Commander in Chief, without regard to the War Powers Act.
chuck

[paulcs]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
1. I did forget the exact figure which is why I used the "~" = "about". Still; do you think a 5% difference at that level makes a whit of difference when discussing about how often this court is reversed on high level cases? I don't.

Let's not forget this is the same court that was reversed re: the California recall election. That was an irrational ruling made by only 3 judges out of a much larger body and this ruling isn't any different.

2. Do you really think these casees aren't going to get a Supreme Court review?

3. The only reason most of the 9th District's cases don't get reviewed is becuase they are cases that don't affect foreign policy.

In such cases the Supreme Court has been very deferential to the political branches, especially during national emergencies and war.

Dr. Mordrid

Let us not forget the actual numbers from the 2002-03 term and exactly how this all works:

Percentage of 9th Circuit cases partially reversed or vacated - 75% (18 of 24)

Percentage of all cases partially reversed or vacated - 74% (59 of 80)

Percentage of 4th, 5th, 8th, and 10th Circuit cases partially reversed or vacated: 100% (8 of 8)

Percentage of state court cases partially reversed or vacated by the US Supreme Court - 81% (17 of 21)

To my fellow Murcers in Europe, it is important to remember that the extremist lies about the US that we see here are sometimes based in half-truths. It is a tactic you should be familiar with. Obviously, the US Supreme Court reverses most of the decisions it agrees to hear and it refuses to hear the vast majority of decisions it has the opportunity to hear (thereby upholding them).

I could play the same dishonest or stupid numbers game. The 6th Circuit, which covers Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, and Dr. Mordrid's state of Michigan, was reversed 100% of the time. That's called "the tyranny of small numbers." It's the sort of thing liars and fools engage in.

During the last term, over 56,000 cases were appealed to the circuit courts, and just under 20% of them were appealed to the 9th Circuit. The vast majority of cases before the US Court of Appeals are "terminated on the merits." Clearly, only a tiny fraction of all cases appealed ever make it to the US Supreme Court, and the high court refuses to hear a large majority of them, thereby giving them their de facto consent.

Paul

[Dr Mordrid]

Which means that if these cases make it to the Supreme Court, and it's likely that at the very least the GITMO case will, SCOTUS is very likely to reverse.

Dr. Mordrid