The cold wind does blow

[The PIT]

and we will have black ice
and what will the poor driver do then
he'll drive so fast and go into a slide
and end on his side.


Nice icy morning off into the peak district and mmmm the gritters have stopped gritting no problem.

Out comes a Police land Rover from the side road and nearly rolls itself over. I'd loved that. Further on along a perfectly striaght bit of road theres one 4x4 on it's side. Thats where the police car was going.

Further on a bit higher up another car again on a perfectly striaght bit of road on the verge on it's roof. Parked behing an eldery couple parked up too scared to move. Ice in front Ice behind carry on.

On the way back pass a tow truck collecting another car that had gone off on the striaght.

If the car on ti's roof was still there when I came back I would have taken a picture sadly only it's tyre tracks were left.

I'm puzzle that all these people had gone off on striaght bit of road though. Thye only thing I can think of is either a sudden gust of wind yes it was gusting up to 38 at home so say 40 - 50 on the moors, a gust of wind did make my car drift suddenly or pot holes which unbalanced the car.

[Brian Ellis]

I bet the straight road started to go downhill. That's the scary bit - start to go faster than one feel's is safe and the reaction is a light dab on the brakes. That's all that's needed. I did it once in Switzerland and did a neat tête-à-queue, happily staying on the road (probably because there were steep banks up on each side) and no other traffic around to be bothered by my waltzing. I HATE black ice.

Fortunately, not a problem here (except if I go in the high mountains, a rare occurrence, as I'm too old to ski).

[DukeP]

Hmm. Seems Denmark just skipped winter.
And spring and summer as well. Gone straight through to yet another fall. Slightly windy, wery rainy, but highish temperaturs.

All in all quite boring - and wet.


I REALLY longe for the BIG blizzard, the ice, the drifting snow etc.
(yes, i drive a 4wd).

~~DukeP~~

[The PIT]

The first case flat there was a bend but person crashed way way way. In the dry you can do it at 100+ if you want to scare someone slightly or 120 if you mean too. No need to break at all normal speeds or even if you're allowing for conditions.

2nd uphill a long way before a gentle bend.

3rd case some distance after a bend i.e in the middle of the striaght bit.

In either of the events if you're driving normally you shouldn't lose control.

One of the big disadvantages of power steering it takes the feel away from the driver. Where the police car nearly overtuned I had to too deliberatly find how icy it was.

[THE_Editor]

As someone that has "Endo'd" into a ditch in snowy conditions (1985) whilst driving my 3.0s Capri I can assure you that skid pan training counts for nought when control gets snatched away.

I'll explain.

Its ok when your anticipating losing control, your ready for it...

In my own case... I was being the hero (although actually driving sensibly) and getting into work @ 03:30. When no-one else bothered to try !! Came to a downhill section and thought ...ooo, better not touch the brakes, use gears, let clutch bite nice & slow...

Rear end stepped out immediately causing car to speed up. Power steering helped me ...get it back, but it came back at twice the speed.. Once again I got it back but it came back at such a speed that I 720'd into said ditch.

Funninly enough.. I sat in that car drivers side deep in snow filled ditch facing upwards..... Thinking of the old "Hamlet" advert..

Just sparking up a smoke, when the passenger window ( snow covered) got wiped away and a voice shouted... "Hang on mate, I'll get yer out", at that (before I could say anything) he wrenched open the passenger door and sent (what seemed) half a tonne of freezing snow onto me !!

Brrrrr.

[Jammrock]

I love watching people with 4x4 vehicles on ice. They don't understand that all 4x4 or all-wheel drive does is help you accelerate in bad weather, it doesn't do a damn thing for stopped or turning.

Jammrock

[RedRed]

I gotta say I love the ice!
Having a second car which cost me the princely sum of £700 (AND being a BMW 318i - rear wheel drive) makes the trips a lot more fun....

The best thing is that any knock which happen usually occour at 10-20 MPH.... I lost a wing mirror last year when a young pup miss judged overtaking a stationary bus... he flicked out (in his Citroen Saxo - with big tyres, tail pipe and side skirts and found he couldnt really nip back in! (or rather he got back in, both must have tires hit the kerb, and he slid out SIDEWAYS into me!

[edit] the thing was - you could see that it was foing to happen - perhaps 20 seconds befpre it did... there was nothing I could do - a sharp turn would have had me broadside....



RedRed

[The PIT]

Power steering nice for parking but for giving feedback to the driver it's useless.
My old XR's you used to know when the road was icy or whether you were aqua plaining or not.

[DukeP]

Originally posted by Jammrock
I love watching people with 4x4 vehicles on ice. They don't understand that all 4x4 or all-wheel drive does is help you accelerate in bad weather, it doesn't do a damn thing for stopped or turning.

Jammrock

Actually some 4x4's are doing worse on Ice than regular cars.

On Ice, only thing that really counts, is goood tires. 4x4 typically doesnt have that good tires; just something BIG with little contact.

Good for mud, sleet and snow. Bad for clean roads and Ice.

~~DukeP~~

[Brian Ellis]

The only major tyre improvement (whether chunky or normal tyres) for ice are the tungsten carbide spikes, which are sheer hell (noise) on ordinary roads and wear the roads down 3 times as fast. A small improvement can sometimes be made for a day or two with 4-WD (chunky) or ordinary car tyres by over-inflating them by ~ 1 bar. This causes the edge of the tread pattern to stand prouder and it can dig into the ice better. However, this advantage disappears rapidly if you spin the wheels.

For snow/slush, I recommend special snow tyres, but ordinary tyres are better than snow tyres for ice. When I was living in Switzerland, I had 1 set of wheels with ordinary tyres and a second set with snow tyres (and chains in the boot).

In winter conditions, the best cars were those with the engine over the driven wheels, such as the old VW Beetle or most front-wheel-drive cars, and the worst were decidedly rear-wheel-drive cars with the engine in the front. My Camry would leave every Merc or BMW standing (or, rather, sliding) in uphill bad conditions

[Wulfman]

we were told during our driving lessons that a tire with slightly less pressure will have better contact on ice. makes sense for me: more surface.

mfg
wulfman

[Byock]

Yeah, nice 19 inches of snow here over one day. Makes driving fun. Had I not had 4 wheel drive, I would have been stuck in a house with no power, or heat.

[Brian Ellis]

Originally posted by Wulfman
we were told during our driving lessons that a tire with slightly less pressure will have better contact on ice. makes sense for me: more surface.

mfg
wulfman

Makes sense for snow but not for ice. You get the best grip on ice if you can force the tyre into it. Sorry!

[DukeP]

Brian, I think that might depend on what type of Tire youve got.

Some of the slick ice/cold wethear tires have amazingly soft rubber that clings very well to the ice. With this soft of rubber, low pressure would be better - higher contact area.
Dont drive on a clear road above 10 degrees tho', these types wear down FAST when temp goes much above freezing.

Btw, love the spikes. Had a rental car in Norway for 14 days with spikes. Althouh every road was hardpacked snow/ice; driving was relative safe (or could have been, if I didnt enjoy powersliding so much).

~~DukeP~~

[RedRed]

The weather forecast promises a couple of inches tomorrow....

I have my eye on a pristine lorrypark near home.... Oh MY GOD!

It never really got above freezing today!

fun, fun, fun....

For any 'racers' who might have read my earlier post - drive sensibly and slowly.... no sudden manuvers of accelerator, steering or break and you should be fine.....

The break pedal is you enemy! Gear arrest (and only with gradual declutching - damed hard to do effectively in an old skool BMW BTW) is the safest...

I never worried about the tryes much - but then Ireland doesnt have much extreme weather...

I used to love the lines of the capri - but the best of class for the time must have been the Manta coupe.... driving (and tail!) heaven.....

I never warmed to the XR3's all flash - tended to be driven by young hoods......