Welcome my european friends!

[Nowhere]

Finally, after 59 years, the division of Europe done in Jalta is no more...

[thop]

Personally i'm not so much interested in the economic consequences of this, rather than the political, social and cultural ones. Especially since the ten new countries are not really heavyweights concerning economy. They only make up ~6% of the total GNP of the EU now.

[RedRed]

KV - you are completely right.

Unfortunately, mostly British have inherited this from their parents....

It will never change.

[Novdid]

I should ad that I hope the British attitude revolving european matters does change. I'm afraid though that if the tories win the upcoming election you'll be eventually stepping out of the EU (that would require that the other countries approval though).

Maybe I'm assuming to much, blowing things out of proportion...

Well I got a bit off topic here, sorry.

To all the new members, welcome!!!

[efty]

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome

Unfortunately the celebrations here were somewhat mood due to the recent developments regarding the Cyprus problem.

[UtwigMU]

I watched the news: Both of two first citizens (a boy and girl) of EU born in Slovenia (on May first) were not of Slovenian nationality.

To me this is slightly alarming.

[dZeus]

maybe you should leave the EU then, if you're afraid of foreign nationals entering your country? that's one of the things that the EU makes easier you know, working/living in a different EU country...

[UtwigMU]

It's not the foreigners entering, it's the low natality and disapearance of nation that worries me.

[az]

Nations will disappear anyway, in the long run

AZ

[Novdid]

And that's a good thing, except in football games. I love when our puny team kicks the british in their private parts!

[az]

Rest assured, football will stay archaic for as long as it exists

AZ

[TransformX]

No nations mean no different cultures. Eventually this is supposed to mean that everyone are the same, which they aren't.
I think the EU is nothing more than an experiment in anthropology, economy etc. I don't think it'll hold for long*.

* I think the EU will fall apart / blow up in up to 20 years from now.

[az]

You just hope so - I'll hope the EU will overcome its overregulation problems and oversubventioning (tobacco fields in germany!), and gets a little more self esteem (Galileo!).

And no states meaning no identity is bull. The Jews kept their identity without an own state for quite some time (of course they assimilated partwise until Hitler et al. ruined Germany. But this is an extreme example of a homeless people, if you so will. Thus many jews considered themselves german, and for all accounts were germans, just not christs. Take the Sinti and Roma - still very much retaining their identity. Take Bavaria - they still don't speak german, and don't view themselves as germans ) Regions have their own identity, culture and language (or dialect) without being separate states, and there's no reason why it shouldn't stay that way. But let's not turn this welcome thread into temp material

AZ

[TransformX]

Not meaning to go down the temp-forum way:
The problem as I see it is that the EU seems to allow people to move freely from one country to another. I believe the EU will have the same problems Germany had when it was united, only in a much greater scale and with much less resources to take care of it.

[UtwigMU]

I don't see Europe becoming melting pot and I don't see nations disappearing.

Simply beacause they haven't disappeared untill now.

For since about Charlemagne and 800AD European nations were living in common states and some nations were under different states. And majority of nations still remained and didn't disappear. They became part of same European Christian/Roman culture, but they didn't disappear although flow of people, ideas and goods was there in the past.

For instance Dutch were under Spanish, did they disappear, Finns were under Russians for a while, did they disappear?

Much of the countries entering EU now were uner Holy Roman-German Empire for ~1000 of years, yet they didn't disappear. The Habsburg monarchy/Austro-Hungary was a multi ethnic state, yet nations didn't disappear. At latter stages they even gained more rights (use of language) and become more aware of identity.

So I don't see Europe as US Style melting pot, since appart from 19th and 20th century nationalism, the oppurtunity to melt was there and it didn't occur and I also don't foresee mass migrations, except maybe regional gravity cities gaining multiple identities (Much like Wienna reflects that it once had been a capital of multi national super state.)

The cultural difference between European nations is not great, and the borders were newer clear cut, they were more like gradients. So I think the difference in life, music customs on most EU borders between areas near the border is not big and it will remain so in the future.

As for migrations - artists, scientists, teachers, clerics, peasants (colonists) and labourers have been migrating in the medievals and in most cases they have integrated culturaly and linguistically in the enviroment to which they came.

For instance christianity was brought to Slovenians in 10th/11th century by Irish monks.

Or for instance Bavaria - they came under Holy roman Empire at ~800AD and they still have retained their own identity.

Even regions among current states have retained their difference, identity and dialects.

So I don't see the border regions changing a lot and I don't see mass migration arround EU occuring.

The migration from non-European regions to Europe is another story IMO.


As for migrations among new members and old members:

Most of old members imposed 7 years of moratorium on free flow of people.

Here most of the people don't plan to seek jobs in EU, appart from some who applied in Brusseles and a few experts (doctors, engineers), but such professions have done so in the past.

Our GNP is close to that of Greece or Spain and when those countries joined EU there was not a huge migration.

In some of eastern countries (Baltic states, Slovakia, Poland) GNP is lower, but again I think those countries with accession to EU have become more stable and will grow, so again I don't foresee mass migration.

For instance look at Czechs or Hungarians - what kind of cars and what clothes did they wear when they were going on vacation in 80's. Now they drive fancy Octavias, Passats and don't appear different from other Europeans.