The Cost of Economic Prosperity

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Fluff
Why is the growth of an economy so important?

Greed of those in power to benefit from it. Power-hungryness of those at the top to increase their world clout.

[Fluff]

They deserve a slap.

[Dr Mordrid]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
Greed of those in power to benefit from it. Power-hungryness of those at the top to increase their world clout.

Don't see you giving up your trappings of properity & moving into a teepee...

Dr. Mordrid

[Mcollector]

The problem is the robber barons who run big companies just don't care about anything but $$ (or yuan). They don't live where they pollute, and most of them don't give a rat's ass what happens elsewhere or after they are gone.

I know someone setting up a factory in China right now. He describes the place as the Wild West. There is virtually no regulation, you just do it, wherever and however you want, so long as it makes money for someone. He salivates at the opportunity to pay Chinese workers US$120 per month for 10 hour days, 6 days a week. Everything is done via "guang shi wan" (or however you say it), i.e., a connection network. It all matters on who you know. (Watch out, all you "educated" tech workers, you're next. You can be outsourced, if you haven't been already.)

In terms of integrity, dealing with the Chinese in business is like dealing with the Ferengi. In China, a warranty lasts as long as you hold your money in your own hand.

China is going to have major social, environmental and political problems some time w/i the next 25 years. Maybe less. It's one of the most historically corrupt, class conscious and unstable societies on earth. Xenophobia and outright racism are just under the surface.

As to China being unable to pollute as bad as the US or Europe, that is flat out wrong. 7 of the 10 most polluted cities on earth are in China, according to a PBS (Nova, I think) documentary (someone in this thread said 16 or 17 of 20, so maybe it's gotten worse). Air pollution from China is now observed in the American Pacific Northwest, 3000+ miles away. China has the largest population on earth, and they are all money hungry, status conscious, acquisitional consumers. (After all, Deng Shao-ping said, "To get rich is glorious.") Just go there and see for yourself. The Chinese govt. has just started taking minimal action, like supposedly banning any more cars in Shanghai, but don't count on it. All major automakers have huge factories in China now, producing cars that at best have early 1980's pollution standards in the US and Europe. Oil prices are just going to rise further, because of the huge, exploding Chinese demand. China, in this latest Great Leap Forward, doesn't realize that they were better off when everyone rode bicycles around the city. Now bicyclists need oxygen masks.

You can kiss cheap oil off, btw. With the huge, insatiable, pent up Chinese demand, I predict $100/bbl oil w/i the next 10 years, and an oil war sometime after that. Gonna be nasty when the oil finally runs out, and it might w/i my lifetime.

(What a nice place this is to rant!)

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
Don't see you giving up your trappings of properity & moving into a teepee...

Dr. Mordrid

Well, wait until Wally World takes over and the only people who have any money are the Waltons. Then I won't have much choice.

[Brian Ellis]

Originally posted by Mcollector
You can kiss cheap oil off, btw. With the huge, insatiable, pent up Chinese demand, I predict $100/bbl oil w/i the next 10 years, and an oil war sometime after that. Gonna be nasty when the oil finally runs out, and it might w/i my lifetime.

It is possible we may have reached peak oil, already. If we haven't, it will almost certainly be within the next five years. Production will slowly diminish but the reduction will accelerate with time. However, you are being very optimistic if you think it may be 10 years before the $100/bbl mark is reached. Many economists predict it may reach that by the end of next year, two years at the most. This will not be just because of supply and demand but also because of the de facto devaluation of the dollar (compared to other currencies and gold). What scares the pants off me is if the oil-producers start to want to be paid in one of the stronger currencies, such as the euro, sterling or even the yen. Anyway, as the RMB is tied to the USD, this will have a moderating effect on China's demand for oil. So, my US friends, be prepared to pay $5 or more per gallon when you fill up your Humvees, SUVs or what have you. It'll happen sooner than you think.

[GT98]

Originally posted by KvHagedorn
Well, wait until Wally World takes over and the only people who have any money are the Waltons. Then I won't have much choice.

Thats the funny thing about where I live...Walmart hasn't taken over Anything and hasn't caused the gloom and doom I hear about out in the midwest.

I guess having a population of just over million between two counties helps

[Dr Mordrid]

Walmart is in my part of the midwest, but no problems I can see from it. Maybe that's because we have our own 800 lb gorilla that puts Walmart to shame, at least as far as retail stores go: Meijers, a family owned chain of hyper-markets found in the midwest but headquartered in Grand Rapids, MI.

http://www.meijer.com/

Most of the Meijer stores are enormous and have everything from groceries to power tools and automotive supplies and DIY supplies. Very competative prices vs. Walmart too.

Last I checked we have at least 3x as many Meijers as Walmarts and they're still building them about 6-8 miles apart. They're also taking over many of the closed Super K-Marts.

Walmarts Sams Club also has a national competitor: Costco. Lots of competition there too.

Dr. Mordrid

[G400SG16mb]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
Don't see you giving up your trappings of properity & moving into a teepee...

Dr. Mordrid

I don't see you eating money

[Dr Mordrid]

Nope, 'cause I don't have that much. I'm retired. Investments, yes....but those are for our later years & Eriks future.

Dr. Mordrid