North Korea, now with blasts, mushroom clouds...

[Rakido]

They said in the radio, that it was a planned explosion. They blasted a mountain away, making space for a power house

[edit:] from Reuters: N.Korea Says Blast Was for Hydro-Electric Project

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.j...toryID=6215807

"It was no nuclear explosion or an accident. It was a deliberate controlled detonation to demolish a mountain in the far north of the country," a BBC correspondent in Pyongyang with British Foreign Office minister Bill Rammell quoted North Korean Foreign Minister Paek Nam-sun as saying.

Rakido

[Greebe]

If the US hadn't gone back on it's word and actually finished the TWO cold water nuclear power plants I highly doubt NK would be starting up it's own again.

Sadly the Bushy Boy analysts figured Li would have either be overthrown or died before this fact got out.

[Dr Mordrid]

Greebe:.

Bill Clinton agreed in a treaty to sell those light water (plutonium free) reactors to NK back in 1994. Meanwhile NK never cooperated with the IAEA as they had agreed to in the treaty, so construction was delayed in a carrot-stick approach by BOTH the Clinton and Bush administrations.

After assurances by NK and some movement on their part Bush authorized their construction be started and the foundations were poured in August 2002 with a construction schedule of 36 months. This was just in time for NK to stgart their current round of screwing with the IAEA so as a result construction was properly halted.

SM-3:

http://raytheon.com/products/sm3_leap/ref_docs/sm3_leap.pdf

Dec. 11, 2003 Aegis Missile Test Successful

WASHINGTON--The Missile Defense Agency and the U.S. Navy announced today the completion of a successful flight test in the continuing development of the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense Program, the sea-based element of the Ballistic Missile Defense System. Flight Mission-6 involved the detection and tracking of an Aries medium-range target missile launched from the Pacific Missile Range Facility Kauai, Hawaii, at 8:10 a.m. HST.

Approximately two minutes after target launch, a developmental Standard Missile-3 was launched from the Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense cruiser the USS Lake Erie. Approximately two minutes later the SM-3 successfully intercepted the target missile with "hit to kill" technology, using only the force of the direct collision to destroy the target. This was the fourth successful intercept for Aegis BMD and SM-3.

After the target was launched, the Aegis destroyer the USS Russell, located near the island of Kauai, detected the target and reported the target track to the USS Lake Erie, located further out to sea. Outfitted with Aegis BMD equipment and computer program configuration, the USS Lake Erie acquired and tracked the target with its AN/SPY-1 radar and developed a fire control solution. The crew of the USS Lake Erie then launched the SM-3 missile. The Aegis Weapon System guided the first, second, and third stages of the SM-3 to a position to perform an intercept of the target. After ejection from the SM-3 third stage, the kinetic warhead acquired, tracked, and diverted directly into the target at an altitude of 137 kilometers, and at a closing speed of approximately 3.7 kilometers per second.

This test was another step forward in the development and test program leading to the integration of Aegis BMD into the "layered" missile defense system designed to intercept and destroy all types of ballistic missiles during any phase of flight boost, midcourse and terminal. A primary objective for this test was to evaluate the performance of long-range surveillance and track support from an Aegis cruiser and destroyer team that has the potential for use with a number of different missile defense elements, including the Ground-based Midcourse Defense designed to protect the United States against long-range ballistic missiles.

Extensive post-test analysis will be conducted to evaluate the performance of the entire system as tested. It will provide the data necessary to prepare for future flight tests and to aid in the continuing development program to ensure the United States will be able to defend our homeland, deployed forces, and our friends and allies, against ballistic missiles of all ranges.

Conducted by Navy personnel, FM-6 is the fourth of a six-flight test series within the 2004-2005 time period (called Block 2004) to develop a sea-based ballistic missile defense against short-to-medium range ballistic missiles. FM 6 is the third developmental flight test against more complex, stressing, and operationally realistic ballistic missile engagement scenarios. Future tests will continue to increase operational realism..

Dr. Mordrid

[DukeP]

Light water reactors?
Like Chernobyl?

I thought nobody build those anymore...

Come on, world. Go Pebbles.

This message brought you by the organisation for a greener tomorrow..



~~DukeP~~

[cjolley]

Originally posted by Rakido
They said in the radio, that it was a planned explosion....

Making it an almost dead certainty that it was an accident of some sort.
It's very unusual for an entire country to be insane, but NK seems to qualify.

chuck

[Ribbit]

Originally posted by DukeP
Come on, world. Go Pebbles.

Sorry Duke, this one went right over my head

[Novdid]

Doc you also have to have in mind that these countries are in a very fragile state. Iran's government runs a high risk of being overthrown by the people anyday now, and NK is in such a bad humanitarian situation that makes it almost impossible to go on like they have for much longer.

Iran in particular would be very foolish to attack as they are considered by many (uneducated)muslims as a rollmodel, with it's islamic republic. If the iranian regime get's overthrown by an exterior force, it will create enormous incitaments for terrorism. But if the iranians themselves handles that part, the effect will be the opposite.

The only way to get stability in the middle east is to persuade the fundamentalists to enter the political arena in a democratic system (maybe also if the oil in the region suddenly just dissappeared). Trust me they won't get the majority of votes, at least not in Iran.

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
I hope nobody takes this as TEMP material, as it's just some observations of the obvious and a prediction;

Iran is thumbing its nose at the UN, IAEA and everyone else. They have also tested a nuclear-capable medium range ballistic missile system (MRBM) that can reach as far as Sweden, Norway and the UK on the north and Israel. North Korea is doing likewise.

Both are presuming that after the split in the western alliance caused by the war in Iraq that they're safe. IMO they're VERY wrong.

Russia has CERTAINLY found out that the Chechen terrorists are getting support from AQ and other muslim terrorist organizations; namely HAMAS, Hizboullah and others directly linked to and/or funded by Iran.

Who's directly south of Chechnya and in a position to provide the terrorists with training camps and logistical support? Iran.

What did a high level Russian General state this week? That they will "pursue these terrorists to the ends of the Earth" in a manner that implies their basic acceptance of the Bush Doctrine.

France has been put on notice that their practice of appeasing muslim terrorists isn't doing them any good. They've had two people kidnapped and have received direct threats from muslim terrorist groups including AQ. Germany and France both are seeing Iran thumb their noses at them re: the IAEA demands.

IMO if Iran and NK keep this up, and especially if NK tests a nuke, they have at most several months before an alliance will form and attack BOTH.

I'm guessing on most of the major NATO countries, Russia and maybe even China since all are at risk if either destabilizes their surroundings.

I include China because if the Western Pacific is destabilized it could start a nuclear arms race in the area (Japan, South Korea and perhaps even Formosa) that is definitely not in their interests.

There may well not be a land attack, but I sure as hell wouldn't want to be in a terrorist camp or nuclear facilty in either place when the stealth bombers arrive and the cruise missiles and bunker-buster bombs start to fall.

Dr. Mordrid

[Dr Mordrid]

The only way to get stability in the middle east is to persuade the fundamentalists to enter the political arena in a democratic system

You're joking, right? Their belief system is antithetical to the very idea of a democratic system, which is why you see Iran as it is today.

Yes; it would be very nice if their young population screwed those old-fart mullahs into the ground and laid 6 feet of concrete over them for good measure, but that won't do anyone any good if before then they start an assembly line for nukes and sell/give them to every terrorist group the mullahs support.

I saw a very informative speech given by Ayatollah Khomeni's grandson, Hossein Khomeini, at the American Enterprise Institute. He's the antithesis of his grandfather, being very progressive and quite candid about what's going on inside Iran. It was both enlightening and extremely frightening at once. Here's a quote from him to show the contrast;

Islam should be completely a matter of personal relationship of the individual and his/her God. But when the majority of people are muslim, the opinion of the majority would be reflected in some areas, such as the civil rights [...] We don't want a government that teaches ethics, but one that follows people [...] Islam should not at all be taken into account in governmental affairs [...] If a majority of people say they want an Islamic government, this is in contradiction with the basis of a secular and free government and it shouldn't be accepted.

Links;

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3144082.stm

Unfortunately his comments may prove damaging to his long term survival;

http://www.aei.org/news/newsID.19680/news_detail.asp

Dr. Mordrid

[Novdid]

Originally posted by Dr Mordrid
You're joking, right? Their belief system is antithetical to the very idea of a democratic system, which is why you see Iran as it is today.

I didn't say it was possible, I just said it was in my belief the only way.

[xortam]

Seems this thread is worthy of a bump, considering recent "news".

[spadnos]

Originally posted by Ribbit
Sorry Duke, this one went right over my head

He's referring to Pebble-Bed reactors. They're a safer form of reactor, since their design tends to shut them down before they can melt down.

- Steve

[DukeP]

Spadnos is right.
That was what I meant.

Pebble based reactors use a lot of smallish pebbles which have their radioactive material at the center and isolating material around them. They are constructed such, that even when touching each other, the generated heat is far below the meltingpoint of the pebbles. In order for this system to go wrong, the pebbles will have to be smashed.
Most systems have the pebbles rotated through a gel of salts (like marbles through syrup) and when they reach the bottom, they are taken out, washed and diagnosed for faults.

If still powerfull enough and unbrooken, they are then reinjected at the top of the system.

The system can reach temperatures high enough to crack hydrogen from water - making them create transportable power as well as heat.

~~DukeP~~

[ZokesPro]

If there was a nuclear explosion, wouldn't seismologists anywhere in the world be able to detect it? Not sure if it registers with mid air explosions.