See who is polluting!

[gt40]

Originally posted by Brian Ellis


Sorry, you miss the point, entirely. First, nearly all western countries have mandatory emission controls, even this little one and the small cars pass just as easily as the large ones. However, the important point is not CO, HC, NOx or SOx emissions which are controlled but CO2 emissions. And there, they are proportional to the fuel that is burnt. So, if you need 10 l of fuel to go from A to B in a small car, you will produce half the greenhouse-gas pollution than if your large car needs 20 l for the same journey. This is what is important. Even the US Administration has recently reluctantly admitted that climate change is for real, after reneging on the Kyoto Protocol three years ago. Ask anyone in Florida.

I understand this, as all measurements are made in parts per million.
my little 5L car will average about 10-11L/100km on the highway.
it scored well into the bottom 1/4 of the allowed limits for emissions.
it turns at 2000 rpm at 110km/hr.
now lets say we have a 2L Honda, that turns at about 4500rpm at the same speed and averages 6-7L/100 km, and just barely passes emissions.

Which one is producing more pollution??

[Brian Ellis]

In the first place, a 2 l Honda does not turn at 4500 rpm at 110 km. I have a 2 l Honda C-RV and, being a heavy 4-WD car has fairly low gearing, and it does 2900 rpm at 110 km/h. A saloon Honda, of the same capacity, probably does 2600 or 2700 rpm at that speed.

The last time my 8-year old Honda had its emissions test done, it was under 30% of the limit at tick-over, at 50 km/h and 100 km/h (those are the speeds at which the roller tests are done, corresponding to town and highway limits), for all of CO, HC, NOx and SOx. Of course, the catalytic converter ensure this, anyway.

Just to show how ridiculous your hypothesis is, if my car turned at 4500 rpm at 110 km/h, it would be turning at over 7500 rpm at its rated top speed of 185 km/h, but the red zone starts at 6000 and the orange zone at 5500. In fact, there is an engine speed limiter built into the electronics at 6100 rpm.

And, if your car runs at 10 l/100 km and a Honda uses 6 l/100 km, then your car is producing 66.7% more polluting CO2 than the Honda and the other four pollutants would be essentially identical, because that is a function of the catalytic converter. So, yes, your car pollutes a lot more. And if you had a Prius, which gets 4.5 l/100 km on the highway and < 4 l/100 km in city traffic, you would cut your emissions by 55% on the highway and probably 75-80% in town driving. And that is not theory.

[gt40]

My car has 4 catalytics, not just 1.

[Brian Ellis]

Originally posted by Greebe
Florida here
The previous years heatwave here wasn't caused by Global warming but El Nino. We're in a mid phase La Nina - El Nino conversion now which is bringing on all these WTF, not another bloody hurricane!

Sorry, Grebe, have you thought why El Nino is getting worse on each cycle? 10 years ago, the IPCC said that one of the effects of climate change is more turbulent weather, including hurricanes, typhoons, tornadoes, gales, floods etc. This is proving true and not just in Florida but also in Europe, China, S. America (which had their first-ever hurricanes this year) and elsewhere.

If I lived in Florida, I'd set up shop selling plywood. In a few years time, it won't be three major hurricanes, it'll be four or five and every year. And life on the barrier islands will become very difficult or even impossible. My guess is that towns like Cocoa Beach (where I've stayed when working with NASA) will simply disappear off the map, not because of the sea level rising as such, but because of the deeper storm surges.

Trivia question: which country now has the greatest frequency of tornadoes, averaged over the last five years?

[Brian Ellis]

Originally posted by gt40
My car has 4 catalytics, not just 1.

Provided that the catalytic pots are matched to the engine and the lambda valve, it doesn't matter how many there are. Catalytic pots don't reduce the CO2 emissions (in fact, they increase them because the CO and HCs are oxidised to CO2 in them!). Your car probably needs four because it has a much greater volume of exhaust gas to treat! IMHO, nothing to be proud about.

[gt40]

I'll dig up my certifiacte and post some numbers.

[GT98]

Originally posted by UtwigMU
I think America has a long way to go towards accepting small cars - I recall Doc posting, how judge sentenced someone on driving car no more powerful than 130HP.

This is considered normal to good for a big car (Passat/A6/Mondeo class).

With a small car such as Peugot 206 110HP is enough for speeds over 200km/h and some pretty good acceleration.

Well I'm not sure where your getting your info but I'll try to explain how America works with automoblies...

First off 130 HP in a large compact car like the Mondeo (known as the Contour in the States when it was sold here) is "underpowered" for the avg American. Nearly 90% of cars sold here have automatic transmissions, which rob about 10 HP from the engine vs a stick shift, thus killing your performance to a degree. Also add in that cars in the States are geared differently in Europe due to our long distance driving (its an accepted fact in the Mid west if u want to get some where you can drive 4+ hours to get there) , where as in Europe (depending on traffic) you can be out of your own country in that same time. I've drove a 110HP automatic equiped Focus and its a dog compared to the 170HP Verison I have, which I consider acceptable for performance from a vechicle, plus having a stick shift lets me decide how much power I want and need to pass someone or accellerate. Most mid sized cars in the US come with 200hp with some coming with 250hp +

There are verisons of 2.3L engine in the Focus that meet PLEV standards in Californa and the Rest of the US meaning they are considered a Partial low emmisons vechicle, bringing them close to hybrids or electric cars as u can with an Internal combustion engine.

I find that often cars are way too easy to blame for pollition problems, when coal fired electrical plants that run 24/7 put out more CO2 and what not then a car will ever.

[GT98]

Originally posted by Brian Ellis


If I lived in Florida, I'd set up shop selling plywood. In a few years time, it won't be three major hurricanes, it'll be four or five and every year. And life on the barrier islands will become very difficult or even impossible. My guess is that towns like Cocoa Beach (where I've stayed when working with NASA) will simply disappear off the map, not because of the sea level rising as such, but because of the deeper storm surges.

Well did you ever consider that Hurricanes go in cycles? Theres been years where theirs been just a couple tropical storms that dont do much of anything besides dump lots of rain. I wouldn't automatically blame all the hurricanes that FL is getting hit by on global warming

[Brian Ellis]

I agree that coal-fired power stations are the worst. Not only do they emit more CO2 per kWh generated than any other type of power station, but they also emit more of the other polluting gases AND more radioactive emissions (in fact, it is estimated that a single 1 GW coal-fired station emits about as much radiation as all the nuclear power stations in the world combined, not counting Chernobyl, of course). Notwithstanding, a coal fired power station produces more energy out of a given weight of fuel (compensated for the chemistry of combustion) than any internal combustion engine. So a car has a poorer efficiency in using fossil fuels than a power station and therfore per joule at the driving wheels, is more polluting in less absolute terms. In figures, a modern power station runs at 35-40% and a modern car at 20-25% (Prius, up to 32%).

And hybrids have an internal combustion engine

[DukeP]

Lol.
My first car, which i TRULY loved, had 60hp.
It had a 3cylinder 1L engine.

It had a max speed (with 2people and some luggage) at around 150km/h.

It never used more than 4L/100Km.

It could legaly be loaded with 600kilograms of lugage and passengers. That would prob have cut the max speed to around 130km/h.

It was very fast uptil around 70km/h - which it did in first gear. From thereon, it kind of slowed.
I will estimate it around 15secs/100km/h - another 10 secs pr 10km/h from there on.

VERY good car. When it was retired, it had run more than 400.000 km,.

It was a Suzuki Swift GA.

May it bring lots of joy from the beercans it has now been turned into.



~~DukeP~~

[DukeP]

Brian, coal fired powerplants can actually have a VERY high efficiency. My nearby powerplant rutinely clocks in at above 93% efficiency.

Thats only possible through ALSO producing hot water for heating. That way they use all of the steam energy right down to 32degrees celcious.

In the summer, where less heat is required, this powerplant is only running at ½ efficiency. At that time we tend to import most our energy from either Germany (nuclear), Sweden and Norway (waterpower) or from our own windmills, which provide more than 15% of our total energy.

~~DukeP~~

[Goc]

LOL

[UtwigMU]

Florida is getting hit, because they voted for Bush.

I thought about it during some casual conversation, but others apparently did a more thorough study.

[Jon P. Inghram]

First of all, http://www.snopes.com/politics/bush/hurricane.asp

And second:

The main problem I have with cars is the never ending mass production of them to replace older ones that don't need to be replaced.

[Technoid]

Originally posted by GT98
Well I'm not sure where your getting your info but I'll try to explain how America works with automoblies...

First off 130 HP in a large compact car like the Mondeo (known as the Contour in the States when it was sold here) is "underpowered" for the avg American. Nearly 90% of cars sold here have automatic transmissions, which rob about 10 HP from the engine vs a stick shift, thus killing your performance to a degree. Also add in that cars in the States are geared differently in Europe due to our long distance driving (its an accepted fact in the Mid west if u want to get some where you can drive 4+ hours to get there) , where as in Europe (depending on traffic) you can be out of your own country in that same time. I've drove a 110HP automatic equiped Focus and its a dog compared to the 170HP Verison I have, which I consider acceptable for performance from a vechicle, plus having a stick shift lets me decide how much power I want and need to pass someone or accellerate. Most mid sized cars in the US come with 200hp with some coming with 250hp +

There are verisons of 2.3L engine in the Focus that meet PLEV standards in Californa and the Rest of the US meaning they are considered a Partial low emmisons vechicle, bringing them close to hybrids or electric cars as u can with an Internal combustion engine.

I find that often cars are way too easy to blame for pollition problems, when coal fired electrical plants that run 24/7 put out more CO2 and what not then a car will ever.

Oh…And I always thought it was one of these explanations

We in America have to have BIG cars with BIG engines and really shitty mileage, that’s because we live in a BIG country and having a BIG engine makes us get there faster because we don't have any speed limits so our cars go faster than the eurotwits cars with their puny engines and their great mileage

Or is it perhaps;

We in America have different laws of nature; we live in such a great BIG nation that gravity is much stronger here that’s why we need BIG cars with BIG engines to achieve the same speeds that smaller and more efficient cars manage in other countries

Or maybe its just

Uhhhhh…..the commercials say wee need BIG cars with BIG engines to be real Americans, so we buy em….