Believe o matic

[KvHagedorn]

Originally posted by schmosef
Yeah KvH, where's that coming from?

Most of the people who have shown their results here are winding up with "secular humanism" on top. I have also noticed that the people here who are atheists are much more likely to say "I'm an atheist" than religious people are likely to talk about their beliefs. It's just an observation. For example, I know you are Jewish and Jammrock is Mormon and that's about it. By comparison, a whole slew of people here have said they are atheists, and it makes me think that religious people feel like they cannot talk about their beliefs because this large mass of anti-religious people will talk them down. I would like to hear more positive thoughts on religion than the standard diatribe about it causing more wars than anything else, blah blah, etc. etc.

[dZeus]

so posting my results of some obscure poll is a form of suppression of your views on religion? jeez, get a life! (oh and for a matter of fact, I'm not atheïst)

[schmosef]

Ok, now I understand where you're coming from.

I guess I didn't follow you at first because my experience here has been different.

I haven't been around the MURC as long as you but I can say that personally, I have never felt peer pressured into not sharing my views on any topic, including religion.

Even when I feel like I might be the lone voice in the wilderness, I find that if I stay civil, so does the rest of the crowd.

Now I know that there are a few members around here that seem especially intent on finding holes in your personal philosophy, but I've always seen that as related to some unresolved flame wars from the forum's bad old days. It's kind of a badge of honor, or at least recognition of status, to have ones opinions so highly scrutinized.

[Helevitia]

heheheHAHAHAHA HOHOHOHO!

I almost fell into this thread of destruction...Whew! I made it out without posting an argument

[rylan]

I've never heard of most of these 'religions' that the thing comes up with.

[DogWomble]

KvH, I don't have a problem with people who choose to follow a particular religion. Some of my friends are quite Christian (one being a priest at one time).

However, I will make one thing quite clear: The reason I turned away from Christianity (I used to be Anglican) was because they ranted and raved on and on about "Gays are bad, mmmkay?" - and that's pretty much all I heard in that particular time of my life. I also hear it with a regular manotony that I find quite disturbing. I then realised that this was not the place for me. I turned away from Christianity because I felt that it had turned away from me.

You may remember the thread that was going on a couple of months back on that same issue? You may also know then that I am quite happy to stick up for myself and my beliefs in the same way you are.

I am not anti religion per se - everyone has the right to choose. What I am against is these people thinking it is an excuse to tell me how I should run my life. If they want me to respect their choice to follow their particular religion, I would also like my right to follow my life in the way I see fit without having to feel like these people are gonna sit there and put me down just because of who I took to bed with me last night without seeing the rest of who I am.

[Wombat]

KvH wants positive religious info? Fine, I'm a church-going Unitarian Universalist.

[paulcs]

The Internet says I'm a Unitarian!!

1. Unitarian Universalism (100%)
2. Secular Humanism (95%)
3. Liberal Quakers (88%)
4. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (87%)
5. Neo-Pagan (69%)
6. Nontheist (66%)
7. Theravada Buddhism (65%)
8. Reform Judaism (56%)
9. Taoism (55%)
10. Bahá'Ã_ Faith (54%)
11. New Age (52%)
12. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (50%)
13. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (49%)
14. Sikhism (48%)
15. Mahayana Buddhism (45%)
16. New Thought (44%)
17. Scientology (40%)
18. Orthodox Quaker (37%)
19. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (35%)
20. Jainism (29%)
21. Jehovah's Witness (25%)
22. Hinduism (24%)
23. Seventh Day Adventist (18%)
24. Eastern Orthodox (18%)
25. Islam (18%)
26. Orthodox Judaism (18%)
27. Roman Catholic (18%)

I find #27 to be both ironic and maybe a little telling. Or maybe the test or my approach to the test is flawed.

I considered my agnosticism to be a "faith category," and I answered a number of the questions "agreed" or "disagreed" and then gave weight of importance to the answers. I could have just as easily answered "not applicable" and given different weights of importance and possibly secular humanism would have been at the top and nontheist would have done a lot better.

I've only had one person tell me she was a Unitarian. She was very attractive and a lot of fun after she had a few drinks. She was less entertaining when sober. I think she was the one student at my college that actually scared me. (This is not to say she was representative of Unitarians. She was just scary when angry.)

Paul

[schmosef]

Originally posted by DogWomble
KvH, I don't have a problem with people who choose to follow a particular religion. Some of my friends are quite Christian (one being a priest at one time).

However, I will make one thing quite clear: The reason I turned away from Christianity (I used to be Anglican) was because they ranted and raved on and on about "Gays are bad, mmmkay?" - and that's pretty much all I heard in that particular time of my life. I also hear it with a regular manotony that I find quite disturbing. I then realised that this was not the place for me. I turned away from Christianity because I felt that it had turned away from me.

You may remember the thread that was going on a couple of months back on that same issue? You may also know then that I am quite happy to stick up for myself and my beliefs in the same way you are.

I am not anti religion per se - everyone has the right to choose. What I am against is these people thinking it is an excuse to tell me how I should run my life. If they want me to respect their choice to follow their particular religion, I would also like my right to follow my life in the way I see fit without having to feel like these people are gonna sit there and put me down just because of who I took to bed with me last night without seeing the rest of who I am.

DogWomble,

I can see why your experience turned you away from some form of "organised" religion, but are you saying that it killed your faith too?

I'm not asking because I want to save you or anything dumb like that, I'm just facinated by the idea that human error could cause one to stop believing in God.

I don't really practise any particular stream of Judaism but if I did, and say some Rabbi that I once respected started going off the deep end, my relationship with the Rabbi would suffer, not my relationship with God.

[paulcs]

Originally posted by Wombat
KvH wants positive religious info? Fine, I'm a church-going Unitarian Universalist.

Is there are relationship between Deism and Unitarianism? They're often lumped together -- particular during discussions about the founding fathers.

Paul

[DogWomble]

Originally posted by schmosef
DogWomble,

I can see why your experience turned you away from some form of "organised" religion, but are you saying that it killed your faith too?

I'm not asking because I want to save you or anything dumb like that, I'm just facinated by the idea that human error could cause one to stop believing in God.

Basically, I believed that they would never accept me for what I truly was, and would try and "convert" me. I consider myself a bit more open minded than that, and just couldn't see why these people (and it's not necessarily just one "church" or anything like that) would think in such a way. I considered myself free to live my life as a gay guy, and didn't want to be continually reminded that it was bad, and so started living my life as an out and proud gay guy who felt that , in my own life, the struggles against the (usually) religious "being gay is bad" was too much of a burden.

[schmosef]

So does that mean you've lost your faith in God too? Or just your faith in people?

[Wombat]

Originally posted by paulcs
Is there are relationship between Deism and Unitarianism? They're often lumped together -- particular during discussions about the founding fathers.

Paul

Not tons, but some. Deists believe in the Watchmaker theory - God created the universe, set it in motion, and has not intervened since.

Unitarian is/was (it merged with Universalism later) a Christian denomination that didn't accept the Nicene Creed, and thus the trinity. Jesus was not considered one with God. Unitiarianism was a rising "alternate" faith during the founding of the nation, and later on many of the transcendentalists were Unitarians or even Unitarian ministers.

The combined UUs runs a wide gamut. My congregation ranges from Christian to Jew to pagan to agnostic, and the church tends to be on the liberal side. Principles: http://www.uua.org/aboutuua/principles.html

[paulcs]

Originally posted by Wombat
Not tons, but some. Deists believe in the Watchmaker theory - God created the universe, set it in motion, and has not intervened since.

Unitarian is/was (it merged with Universalism later) a Christian denomination that didn't accept the Nicene Creed, and thus the trinity. Jesus was not considered one with God. Unitiarianism was a rising "alternate" faith during the founding of the nation, and later on many of the transcendentalists were Unitarians or even Unitarian ministers.

The combined UUs runs a wide gamut. My congregation ranges from Christian to Jew to pagan to agnostic, and the church tends to be on the liberal side. Principles: http://www.uua.org/aboutuua/principles.html

Thanks. I was doing some research -- much of it not helpful -- and I read that the beliefs of some 18th Century "radical deists" were very similar to the Unitarians. (I assume they're talking about Thomas Paine and maybe Ethan Allen.)

I checked out the link you provided and a couple of websites for San Francisco and Berkeley congregations. It all seems quite reasonable.

Paul

[GT98]

1. Mainline to Liberal Christian Protestants (100%)
2. Unitarian Universalism (97%)
3. Liberal Quakers (92%)
4. Bahá'Ã_ Faith (83%)
5. Neo-Pagan (77%)
6. Reform Judaism (74%)
7. Sikhism (72%)
8. New Age (68%)
9. Mahayana Buddhism (66%)
10. Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) (64%)
11. Theravada Buddhism (62%)
12. Orthodox Judaism (57%)
13. New Thought (57%)
14. Secular Humanism (55%)
15. Christian Science (Church of Christ, Scientist) (48%)
16. Mainline to Conservative Christian/Protestant (48%)
17. Eastern Orthodox (46%)
18. Roman Catholic (46%)
19. Hinduism (45%)
20. Jehovah's Witness (44%)
21. Orthodox Quaker (44%)
22. Scientology (44%)
23. Islam (42%)
24. Taoism (40%)
25. Nontheist (35%)
26. Jainism (33%)
27. Seventh Day Adventist (28%)