Can People be Evil?

[KRSESQ]

For that reason, these people are not considered evil (my definition), but are mentally ill. I am trying to get to the root of the matter - no outside influences or causes.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. Outside influences and causes are the source of all learned (as opposed to instinctive) behavior.

The distinction between good and evil shouldn't be that hard to figure out. Causing pain and suffering to another creature that did no harm to you is evil (I don't consider any religion or philosophy that would condone or endorse such behavior to be "true" in the ecumenical sense). Stopping or preventing harm to others who did nothing to bring it upon themselves may generally be considered "good."

What causes or triggers "evil" behavior is the real question, and the answer is going to be different for every person who indulges in such behavior.

Kevin

[ZokesPro]

Re: Can People be Evil?

I think so. Sometimes I can sense when someone is feeling good or down and I sometimes get strong negative vibes for certain individuals. I think we all have the capacity for it.

[Brian R.]

Originally posted by az
Brian: What is the "normal range of behavior"?

AZ

I'm reaching here...

The normal range of behavior is that encompassed by people who begin life normally (a blank slate) and develop behavior patterns through environmental factors and other such influences - including disease and injury.

To be "evil", your behavior would have to fall at the extreme of this range without such influences. Your initial mental condition is not a blank slate, but in some evil condition.

[Brian R.]

Originally posted by KRSESQ
Nothing happens in a vacuum. Outside influences and causes are the source of all learned (as opposed to instinctive) behavior.

The distinction between good and evil shouldn't be that hard to figure out. Causing pain and suffering to another creature that did no harm to you is evil (I don't consider any religion or philosophy that would condone or endorse such behavior to be "true" in the ecumenical sense). Stopping or preventing harm to others who did nothing to bring it upon themselves may generally be considered "good."

What causes or triggers "evil" behavior is the real question, and the answer is going to be different for every person who indulges in such behavior.

Kevin

That is the point I'm trying to uncover - is it possible to be psycopathic without outside influences? This would not be learned behavior, but intrinsic.

The distinction between good and evil is easy to see. The question is: must there be an environmental cause (trigger) behind evil behavior? You imply that there is - and I understand that this is the general thinking...

[cjolley]

Originally posted by Brian R.
That is the point I'm trying to uncover - is it possible to be psycopathic without outside influences? This would not be learned behavior, but intrinsic.

The distinction between good and evil is easy to see. The question is: must there be an environmental cause (trigger) behind evil behavior? You imply that there is - and I understand that this is the general thinking...

Are all birth defects caused by the environment?
I doubt it.
Well, the brain is very complex. With lots of opportunities for subtle defects.
chuck

[Brian R.]

Parent's genetics = environment?
Brain defects = outside influences? = outside scope of definition?

Trying to understand....

[Umfriend]

Desperately trying to come up with anything sensible on this question I find I am continiously refuting and disbelieving any proposition I can make.

From what I've read above, I get the notion that a definition of "evil" is hard to make. First, it is apparant to me that anything close to a definition provided already always uses "actions" to define it, i.e., I have yet to see anyone suggesting a person can be evil without committing "bad" acts.

I think we'd all be hard pressed to come up with *any* behaviour, be it good or bad, that is not triggered by external factors. And I would think that any chemical (and/or physical) circumstance is such a factor. Even "learned" behaviour alledgedly fixes itself in the brain by way of chemical reactions.

So, aside from these chemical/phisycal factors, be they "program" or "input", are we anything else? Can we think of *anything* that we are outside of that. I think this comes down to "soul" then.

Then, does there exist something like a "soul", something we intrinsically are, not even fixed from birth or conception or from they way our parents create the egg and seed that created us but really, _really_ out of that realm of factors? And if the answer is yes, to what extent does it affect our behaviour?

I do not know. I do not know whether it is an important question either.

Just my ITL .02

[Brian R.]

I believe "evil" is defined by acts or thoughts.

[Umfriend]

I think everyone is non-blank, but probably no one is non-blank enough to explain the "evil" acts they commit.

[Brian R.]

I wish one of us was a phycologist...

[Umfriend]

Also, I'd like to say that IMO, pshycologists and the like are quite often quite happy to indicate the "external" factors that cause "bad" behaviour. But think about this line from the article:

[...]nor are most psychopaths violent criminals.

This is the thing. One can try and "excuse" unwanted behaviour, like raping and killing, by pointing at childhood trauma, suffering certain shortages or abundances of chemicals in the brain etc, but they, sofar, consistently fail to predict who, suffering all said, will and who, suffering all said, will not do bad deeds.

IMO, using "evil" as a scientific term makes no sense. I am not convinced though that a lot of credit should be given to trauma and medical conditions when assesing guilt or measure of punishment.

Uhm, this does not answer your question at all, does it....?

[Brian R.]

I will have to think about it. I think I agree with you. Not all psycopaths have a history of abuse or disease as we know it. "Evil" may have to be a legal term...

[Umfriend]

The point I tried to make was that in fact not all psycopaths have a history of commiting "bad" or "evil" deeds.

[KRSESQ]

After further reflection I must concede that those most sociopathic individuals (your Ted Bundys, John Wayne Gacys, etc.) may indeed be "wired wrong." That is to say they may indeed have some subtle defect of the brain that, along with enviromental factors (including childhood experience), causes their sociopathy to manifest itself in any number of ways that might be called "evil."

"Evil" might be a handy blanket term to cover the not-understood causes and manifestations of this behavior, but as a clinical definition it is probably almost useless.

Kevin

[IM_Riktar]

Evil = Anyone who acts or commits an act against someone else for the sole purpose of eliciting a disagreement that is disagreeable to the party acted upon.

Or put it another way: Do unto others what you wouldn't have done to you.