Florida passes self-defense bill

[Umfriend]

see sig

Done. And? (Don't know what it means)

[Sasq]

Done. And? (Don't know what it means)

10 people 10 colours
(different strokes for different folks)

[Umfriend]

10 people 10 colours
(different strokes for different folks)

I think we agree then. Smart of you

[RichL]

Being soft on crime doesn't work here all that happens that you don't bother reporting crime and in some places people live with a siege like mentality afraid to go out.

As I might have mentioned before, my neighbour decided to commit identity fraud with my name from stolen documents. The Police arrested his wife but he was out at the time they called. The Police came around later the same day to tell me she'd been bailed and that he hadn't shown up after they'd phoned him, and if I saw him could I let them know.

Two weeks later they both move back into their rented flat above me. I spot my neighbour, acting very furtive like he doesnt want to be ID'd (wearing his hood up in warm sun, reversing his car out onto the main road rather than turning it around in the road outside where I could see), so I pop into the local station. "Okay, we'll email the officer involved in the case." You mean you arent going to send someone over and arrest him then?
"Don't know until we've spoken to the officer dealing..." I call and leave messages over the next few weeks, but nobody responds to even tell me I dont have to report him anymore.

Weeks pass and the pair of them vanish off, although the wife comes back every day or two to collect their post. Then one morning coppers turn up in force, and twenty minutes after battering down their door knock on mine, looking rather sheepish and asking me if I'd seen my neighbours recently.
"Yeah, the wife comes around every couple of days to collect their post."
"Actually we want him, but she might lead us to him. Let us know if you see her again."

Two days later she calls for the post and goes away empty handed, then calls again in the afternoon. Obviously waiting for something important so I call the Police to suggest they wait around next morning when the Postman arrives.
"Yes we would like to speak to him, I'll get the officer dealing to call you back."
He never did.
Next day the local paper that said my neighbour admitted guilt to obtaining goods by deception an got £70 fine and community service. I'm sure that'll deter him from doing £20k of fraud in future

[cjolley]

. . . . In sum, over a twenty year period of unparalleled increase in guns, homicide rates were erratic, unpatterned, and completely inconsistent with the shibboleth that doubling the number of guns, especially handguns, would increase homicide rates.

Don B. Kates et al., "Guns and Public Health: Epidemic of Violence or Pandemic of Propaganda?" Tennessee Law Review 62 (1995): 572-73

Dr. Mordrid

Doesn't that mean the guns had no effect either way on homicide rates?
So what's the point?
That just shows that there is no reduction in homicide rates to offset, however much or little, the increased death rate from accidental and suicidal gun deaths resulting from the wider availability of fire arms.

[Brian Ellis]

As I've said before, the number of guns per se is not material, it's the number of idiots who wrap their fingers round a trigger that counts. Switzerland probably has a per capita gun ownership even higher than the US (including military artillery kept at home), but it has a per capita gun related death rate of less than 1/10th of the US. Why? Well, there are probably a number of reasons but the essential one is that all able men are required to join the militia and are therefore trained in the use of firearms. The second one is that Switzerland is a police state with roughly 1 copper per 900 inhabitants and these cops are highly and efficiently trained and they are present in the communities. The village I lived in has ~3000 inhabitant and 3 communal police. On top of this, there are the cantonal police (gendarmerie) who are recruited only from the top echelons of suitable candidates. The third, and possibly an important point, is that the average Swiss is a cool, calm and collected guy with a horror of violence of any form, so there is no Billy-the-Kid type of attitude where violence is worshipped. Another important point is that Switzerland abolished the death penalty (except for wartime treason) long, long, ago. This was cantonal, not federal law, at the time and I think the first cantons to do away with this barbarism did so about 150 years ago, and the last one about 65 or 70 years ago. After the abolition, in every canton, the average murder rate dropped significantly. Then there are gun laws: anyone (even aliens) can buy a gun but you have to apply for a licence. This involves proving the suitability for the job. You will never be granted a licence for a Colt 45 or a Kalashnikov for shooting a chamois. With a few exceptions, gun licences stipulate that the arms must be visible at all times and unloaded when being carried and, of course locked away when not in use with the ammo locked in a different place. If you have reason to believe that your life is in danger, the police may grant you, at their discretion, a derogation to carry a loaded, concealed weapon under stipulated circumstances. Anyone found breaking the gun laws is almost automatically sentenced to clink and, being a police state, licence holders are well surveyed. For the same reason, it is rare for anyone to need to defend himself. OK, you get the odd weirdo, like everywhere, but there is virtually no organised crime; even drug pushers are usually amateurs, often from E. European countries, possibly with an active criminal life of a few months max before they are thrown out of the country.

I'm not saying that this is a perfect situation, but I do feel that eliminating the need for self-defence is much better than having to resort to it. The rest falls in place almost automatically. Another place which is heavily policed with virtually no gun crime is Singapore. I'm less confident in stating the reasons, but Japan, I'm told, has a low gun-death rate; perhaps Sasq can fill us in on this.

[Dr Mordrid]

To eliminate the need for self defense you'd have to set up a society akin to that in Ray Bradbury's "The Pedestrian" or some other totalitarian form, and even then it'll not rid us of all of 'em.

No thanks.

Dr. Mordrid

[KvHagedorn]

Billy the Kid? Wow, you are behind the times. In this day and age, gun crimes are committed by people who worship snoop dogg, not BTK. If you want to compare European countries to the US, and say "you" are better than "we" are, get ready to dispense with political correctness immediately, because if you cling to that sad notion, you will never get the truth.