Local Pride

[schmosef]

Hey KvH, is something the matter? xortam isn't wrong when he says that the tone of your posts has been different lately. It's like you've had an axe to grind but haven't wanted to do it directly so you piss on other people's threads.

Let's not bring down every discussion, shall we?

War sucks, we all agree. At the same time, the realities on the ground make the situation in Israel different than that of the States. By the same token that it was inappropriate for European MURC'ers to suggest that they had a right to vote in the US Presidential election (you'll recall that I took your side on that issue), don't presume to project your morality onto Israeli society.

Sit back and enjoy the pictures. And stop blaming the "liberals" for all life's woes.

[DGhost]

However any of your knee-jerk liberal tendencies might mislead you, I still think it is extremely bad manners to put a woman out on the front line to get her head blown off, which compounds the criminality of putting ANY young innocent on the front line to get his or her head blown off. If you call this attitude of mine hateful or primitive, your ideas are just so ass-backwards that you would really do well to re-evaluate them.

well, first off last I heard was the Israeli women are forbidden from being in front line jobs. Second thing is that it is extremely sexist to say that a womans life is more valuable than a males, especially when it comes to soldiers.

"any young innocent"? last i checked quite a few Israeli's considered military service a matter of pride and look forward to serving. it's not like they put her in the military after finding her in bumble**** texas. it is a completely different culture.

[KvHagedorn]

Damn right it's sexist. So what?

It's not a matter of some U.S./Israel culture clash, either. The cultures are not that different, except there IS a real need for more/most people to do military service there. I was thinking of Jessica Lynch, who was raped and beaten by her captors. This girl is 5'3 and 105 pounds, injured in a car wreck, and she is supposed to fight? She had terrible things happen to her during her capture, before she wound up in a hospital. She was not even a front line soldier, since I think the US has the same ban on front-line duty for females, but she would still be considered a combatant by an opposing army.

As I understand it, women were disqualified from front-line duty because their presence would have been disruptive in the following way: Male soldiers would have been distracted from doing their jobs to an extent because of protective tendencies toward the females they are serving with. It is not WRONG to have these normal feelings, people. What happened to Jessica Lynch proves they are more than justified. This is what I really hate about liberalism, is that it attempts to deny us all humanity.. it spits in the face of nature.. it is evil.

I know Starship Troopers is just fiction, but when Dina Meyer got killed, it was far worse in my eyes than seeing one of the male soldiers killed. Women are supposed to be the heart and the hope of humanity.. the givers of life and nurturing, not the poor fighters of battles. I would admire any woman who would fight well in dire need, but for a society to institutionalize their soldiering is just madness.

By the way, the co-ed shower scene in Starship Troopers is just HOT, but it practically paints it in big red letters for us why co-ed soldiering is a bad idea.. there was so much electricity in that room, one dropped bar of soap might have triggered an all-out orgy. Especially as a 19 year old guy, it would be hard for me to think about blowing away the enemy when next to me in the trench is the female soldier whose fine naked ass I just saw in the shower..

Admit it guys, if Agam Rodberg was sitting next to you in a trench, would your thoughts be focused on killing the enemy?

[Umfriend]

Yes.

[Kurt]

Damn right it's sexist. So what?

It's not a matter of some U.S./Israel culture clash, either. The cultures are not that different, except there IS a real need for more/most people to do military service there. I was thinking of Jessica Lynch, who was raped and beaten by her captors. This girl is 5'3 and 105 pounds, injured in a car wreck, and she is supposed to fight? She had terrible things happen to her during her capture, before she wound up in a hospital. She was not even a front line soldier, since I think the US has the same ban on front-line duty for females, but she would still be considered a combatant by an opposing army.

As I understand it, women were disqualified from front-line duty because their presence would have been disruptive in the following way: Male soldiers would have been distracted from doing their jobs to an extent because of protective tendencies toward the females they are serving with. It is not WRONG to have these normal feelings, people. What happened to Jessica Lynch proves they are more than justified. This is what I really hate about liberalism, is that it attempts to deny us all humanity.. it spits in the face of nature.. it is evil.

I know Starship Troopers is just fiction, but when Dina Meyer got killed, it was far worse in my eyes than seeing one of the male soldiers killed. Women are supposed to be the heart and the hope of humanity.. the givers of life and nurturing, not the poor fighters of battles. I would admire any woman who would fight well in dire need, but for a society to institutionalize their soldiering is just madness.

By the way, the co-ed shower scene in Starship Troopers is just HOT, but it practically paints it in big red letters for us why co-ed soldiering is a bad idea.. there was so much electricity in that room, one dropped bar of soap might have triggered an all-out orgy. Especially as a 19 year old guy, it would be hard for me to think about blowing away the enemy when next to me in the trench is the female soldier whose fine naked ass I just saw in the shower..

Admit it guys, if Agam Rodberg was sitting next to you in a trench, would your thoughts be focused on killing the enemy?

I knew a French soldier from the Légion Etrangère who fought in Cambodia (?can't remeber the exact country, but it's close enough). During the day, he'd shoot at his mistress while at night they'd make over...he still has a bullet in the belly to show off (got slowed down by his pistol's holster). The bullet's right under the skin, so you get a really good view

Anyway...when you really need to fight, it doesn't matter the genre...male/female...they both will kill you if they can.

As far as female soldiers being raped after they've been taken: 1/ they know the risk 2/ remember female soldiers and Iraqi prisonners? Females are not the only ones being abused, it goes both ways.

No amount of complaiing will change the fact that ppl do atrocious things during wartime simply because they think they can 1/ get away with it 2/ want to get back at the enemy.

No war => no warcrime. That's 1/ unlikely, 2/ not reversible.

[RichL]

I was thinking of Jessica Lynch, who was raped and beaten by her captors. This girl is 5'3 and 105 pounds, injured in a car wreck, and she is supposed to fight? She had terrible things happen to her during her capture, before she wound up in a hospital. She was not even a front line soldier, since I think the US has the same ban on front-line duty for females, but she would still be considered a combatant by an opposing army.

Any report coming out of Iraq tends to have so much spin on it I wouldnt trust one if it said the sun came up in the morning. I'd never heard of Pvt Lynch getting raped, beaten, turned into a newt or whatever, and quite frankly I beleive such tales about as much as I beleive the whole WMD reason for invading.

As I understand it, women were disqualified from front-line duty because their presence would have been disruptive in the following way: Male soldiers would have been distracted from doing their jobs to an extent because of protective tendencies toward the females they are serving with. It is not WRONG to have these normal feelings, people. What happened to Jessica Lynch proves they are more than justified. This is what I really hate about liberalism, is that it attempts to deny us all humanity.. it spits in the face of nature.. it is evil.

I can't remember where so I can't supply links, but there have been studies that said male soldiers have put themselves out to protect female soldiers to a far greater extent than they would their male colleagues. A referance I found from the British military refers to unit cohesion, and in a nutshell says "We've got no idea if, under the extreme stresses of combat, a mixed or all female unit would function as well as an all-male one.", with a subtext of "And we dont want to be first to try it, our all-male combat units work pretty damn well thank you."
The Isreali's reportedly found that women soldiers were as good as men, but women who had children were less effective and had a marked reluctance to kill people.


That said, the Russian's had women combat units and pilots during WW2. Indeed, women make good fighter pilots as they can frequently pull higher G's before blackout/redout than men.

Admit it guys, if Agam Rodberg was sitting next to you in a trench, would your thoughts be focused on killing the enemy?

Yes.
Although I've never been shot at, I'm sure it focuses the mind wonderfully,
I work in IT, and although I find myself leaning over the desks of an attractive young ladies with low cut tops and faulty PCs on occassion, I've managed to go several years without bashing them over the head with a keyboard and dragging them back to my cubicle by the hair.
I'm sure trained, disciplined soldiers can be trusted not to get jiggy with each other while under fire.

[Wombat]

Damn right it's sexist. So what?

It's not a matter of some U.S./Israel culture clash, either. The cultures are not that different

I disagree. I know a couple men and women that grew up/spent significant time in Israel. Women in Israel aren't given the respect of equals, they're considered nice things to have.

Hmm, no wonder you don't think it's different, KvH.

[GuchiGuh]

ah no offence, but her face is ....erk??
But then again, I am biased towards asian girls.
white chicks? neeehhh....

thank god perth has an abundance of quality asian females!

[Kurt]

yeah...they love you long time...

[DGhost]

Admit it guys, if Agam Rodberg was sitting next to you in a trench, would your thoughts be focused on killing the enemy?

yes, they would. you see, sitting around and bullshitting with the pretty lady next to you is the fastest way to ensure that you are going to get shot at - even if only because of Murphy's Law.

if she had a problem with it, i would probably tell her to either scan her sector of fire or give me her freaking magazines. same thing i would tell any other support soldier that wound up next to me.

[Kurt]

beh...since the enemy is pretty much focusing on killing you...I don't suppose you'd give much thought to the cute girl next to you or to pretty much anything else -except avoiding death or injury.

during peace time though...although I don't recall the units being with both genders...

[TransformX]

There are some girls who are 'fighters' skillwise in the IDF. A few are even at posts which might mean fighting, border police is a good example for those.
Few of them, very few, are real chicks, especially in the context of the places where they serve. In the army here, they say that every thorn in the desert is a flower..
Anyway, those girls, being what they are, usually prove to be as good soldiers as any male soldier who serves with them. They boys on the other hand, can't easily swallow the fact that a girl, and especially a chick, is a better fighter than themselves so they do their best to be even better.
If such a chick happens to be in the fire line, you can be absolutely sure that:
a. She's a real kickass fighter, no less than any one of the boys.
b. The boys will treat her like their own sister, with all the implications.

This also means that as much as they'd be there to take the bullet for her, she'll do the same for any of them. Cause when the bullets are whistling over your ears, you think of your and your friends survival, you're WAY too busy to think about sex.

[Wombat]

I've got a friend who's an MP and jailor at Gitmo, and she's pretty hot.

[schmosef]

I love a girl in uniform!

[TransformX]

Let me guess, nurse uniform..?