New Pope, Benedict XVI....

[Jessterw]

Oh get off your high horse KvH. I never said it was my place to absolve him, that is between he and God, but we are all responsible for our own actions. I expect that someone who is now the leader of the Roman Catholic Church, the supposed highest authority for Christianity, would have the strength to stand for what he believes in, even if that means being executed.

I'd also like to know how stating facts about someone is slinging mud? I made simple statements concerning the background and stance of this man who is now the pope; statements he himself often stands behind.

On a final note, quite assuming you know the moral and religious standing of the rest of us. You whine that we are making judgment calls when you do so yourself concerning members of this board. Why is it that Christ taught compassion, understanding, and forgiveness, yet you, a professed Christian exhibit none of those traits in your comments here?

But let's get this out of the way. I am a sinner. I have cursed and used the lord's name in vain. I have doubted him. I have looked at pornography and had unclean thoughts while doing so. I haven't been to church on a regular basis in over 12 years. I think modern-day churches are all self-deceiving hypocrites. Oh and Lucifer and I have tea on Sundays during mass.


Edit: Just to make my stance clear, no one who has had any involvement with the Nazi party or any other such hate-based group should ever be allowed to hold a position of such religious importance.

[Nowhere]

You know KvH, you'd really like the radio I mentioned earlier

[xortam]

He vas jus followin orders!

Kinda ironic considering the background of the previous pope ...

That struck me immediately as well.

[Gurm]

Look, the mere fact that the Inquisition STILL EXISTS is shocking and horrifying in the EXTREME!

So now we have a former Nazi, AND Grand Inquisitor... as Pope?

I'm ****ing hiding. I'm telling you that right now. Can you say "Never Again"? Apparently not loud enough.

[GT98]

Look, the mere fact that the Inquisition STILL EXISTS is shocking and horrifying in the EXTREME!

So now we have a former Nazi, AND Grand Inquisitor... as Pope?

I'm ****ing hiding. I'm telling you that right now. Can you say "Never Again"? Apparently not loud enough.

Ugh and yet again we have have Jews thinking they have the corner on pain and suffering when it comes to the human race.

[UtwigMU]

Clarifications: Hitler youth membership was compulsory since 1938. It was combination of pre military education, boyscouts and indoctrination (similar to pioneers in communist countries).

The Wehrmacht was regular german army (founded during Weimar republic). The Sturmabteilung (SA) and Schtutzstaffel (SS) were Nazi party paramilitary organisations. Waffen SS can be considered Nazi Army. For instance the German airforce is still called Luftwaffe.

He was drafted in 1944 and then they were pretty much drafting anyone with severe penalties for avoiding draft.

Ratzinger deserted from Wehrmacht (Source):

Following his Flak service, Ratzinger was sent for basic infantry training and was posted to Hungarian border area, where he worked setting up anti-tank defenses in preparation for the Red Army assault. After two years of service in the German military, Ratzinger deserted days before the surrender of German forces in Europe. While desertion in wartime formally carried a death penalty, the defeated German military was unlikely to apprehend or try deserters.

He's friendly towards Jews:
ADL Welcomes Election of Cardinal Ratzinger as New Pope

Under his leadership in Germany and Rome, the Catholic Church made important strides in improving Catholic-Jewish relations and atoning for the sin of anti-Semitism. Cardinal Ratzinger has been a leader in this effort and has made important statements in the spirit of sensitivity and reconciliation with the Jewish people.

We remember with great appreciation his Christmas reflections on December 29, 2000, when he memorably expressed remorse for the anti-Jewish attitudes that persisted through history, leading to "deplorable acts of violence" and the Holocaust.

No countine spouting unfounded claims, Gurm.

[Jessterw]

Deleted.

[schmosef]

He vas jus followin orders!

LOL!

[paulcs]

Your religious ignorance is showing.

FYI there have been three African Popes, all of them now saints;

Pope Saint Victor 1
Pope Saint Miliades 1
Pope Saint Gelasius 1

OK. This is a little tricky. Gurm said black and Dr. Mordrid said African. There has not been an African pope in 1,500 years, and all three date back to the Roman Empire. Heck, Victor was Bishop of Rome before holders of that office were called "the Pope."

Victor I -- 189 - 198 or 199 AD

Melchiades or Miltiades -- 310 or 311 AD - 314 AD

Gelasius I -- 492 - 496 AD

It was a big empire and early church was relatively color blind. Although all three are said to be African born, whether they were black or desended from Roman colonists is unknown. Nobody is certain (except apparently the BBC) what their skin color was, although Miltiades (the most famous of the three) is often cited on the Internet as being black. Recently, the situation appears to have been muddled further by media reports claiming that if he was elected, Francis Arinze of Nigeria would be the first black pope.

In the absence of credible evidence one way or the other, everybody's ignorance is showing.

Paul

[KvHagedorn]

Oh get off your high horse KvH. I never said it was my place to absolve him, that is between he and God, but we are all responsible for our own actions. I expect that someone who is now the leader of the Roman Catholic Church, the supposed highest authority for Christianity, would have the strength to stand for what he believes in, even if that means being executed.

He was a teenager. Were you so certain in your beliefs at that age? Was he actually a party member? Did he drink Jewish blood with Himmler? Get real.. he was a kid who was drafted, like EVERY other young man in Germany at the time. To condemn him based upon the fact that he was a German in Germany at that time is simply no different than to condemn Jews because they were Jews. From what I have heard, he was very open about his history. Again, expecting him to martyr himself is unreasonable to say the least. Personally, I think martyrdom is overrated. There are so many more positive things to be done with one's life.

[Jessterw]

I don't expect him to have done anything and I'm all for forgiveness of past sins; however, I just don't feel he should be allowed to hold the position he now does based on his involvement with the Nazi regime.

I stand by what I said. This is a man who reminded bishops that they were to remain hush on matters of sexual depravity less they be excommunicated. That alone shows him to be less than a true man of god.

[KvHagedorn]

OK. This is a little tricky. Gurm said black and Dr. Mordrid said African. There has not been an African pope in 1,500 years, and all three date back to the Roman Empire. Heck, Victor was Bishop of Rome before holders of that office were called "the Pope."

Victor I -- 189 - 198 or 199 AD

Melchiades or Miltiades -- 310 or 311 AD - 314 AD

Gelasius I -- 492 - 496 AD

It was a big empire and early church was relatively color blind. Although all three are said to be African born, whether they were black or desended from Roman colonists is unknown. Nobody is certain (except apparently the BBC) what their skin color was, although Miltiades (the most famous of the three) is often cited on the Internet as being black. Recently, the situation appears to have been muddled further by media reports claiming that if he was elected, Francis Arinze of Nigeria would be the first black pope.

In the absence of credible evidence one way or the other, everybody's ignorance is showing.

Paul

This is true, but they were not likely sub-Saharan black people. In the Latin world, "Africa" meant the Roman province of Africa, i.e. what was once Carthage. This was peopled by the native Berbers, then Phoenicians who were the Carthaginians, then Roman colonists. The 400s were marked by the arrival of the Vandals, a Germanic people. Also, to some Europeans, any dark-skinned person might have been "black." Even recently, the British called not only Negroes, but also Indians and Aborigines "black," so who knows? More importantly, it's not important.

[Jessterw]

and KvH is correct: young men in Germany were not given the choice of joining the Hitler Youth. They were just cannon fodder once the regular army had been descimated.

Everyone has a choice. I'm not saying that I would have done any different, just that he made the decision to go with the path of least resistance. The whole subject of his involvement with Nazi Germany had to do with KvH's statement regarding him being a man of god that we should consider above question.

[KvHagedorn]

I don't expect him to have done anything and I'm all for forgiveness of past sins; however, I just don't feel he should be allowed to hold the position he now does based on his involvement with the Nazi regime.

I stand by what I said. This is a man who reminded bishops that they were to remain hush on matters of sexual depravity less they be excommunicated. That alone shows him to be less than a true man of god.

I still think you are being quite unfair. From what I have seen of him (watched the interview from a year ago on EWTN, and heard others speak to his character) your characterization is unwarranted. We shall see how things go with his Pontificate.

[KvHagedorn]

Everyone has a choice. I'm not saying that I would have done any different, just that he made the decision to go with the path of least resistance. The whole subject of his involvement with Nazi Germany had to do with KvH's statement regarding him being a man of god that we should consider above question.

I think the question more to the point is, what do you gain from attacking this man, and why do you do it? His history is no different than that of any other decent person on either side who was drafted and served on the front lines. He was not even 18 yet. He almost certainly did not know about the death camps.. most did not. As I understand it, his father was very anti-Nazi, and tried to move the family around so as not to get them caught up in Nazi society. He was not a Nazi sympathizer and certainly not a party member. He was a German. Or maybe you are like every other American brainwashed by American media to just hate Germans? Racism is bad unless it is all about hating Germans.. then it is OK, right?

The fact that this was where he was born and raised and he had to live through this era should not disqualify him from the Papacy nor from generally living a saintly life in devotion to the word of God.