People having trouble with HPV vaccination.

[KvHagedorn]

That's just silly.
It's like saying that a kid.
1, as a teen remembers it was vaccinated against polio
2, has a clue what that means anyway
3, would be encouraged to swim in dirty water because of it.

No, it's like saying that birth control makes "free love" possible, which is exactly what happened in the 60s.

Pre-teens organizing oral sex parties? Where did you read this?

[Wombat]

Look what happened to the oral sex rate among kids in the US. The rates went through the roof once Clintons indiscretions, and his defense of same, convinced young people that it "wasn't really sex"; and yes that's exactly the quote I'v heard from more kids than I care to think about.

I've seen that attributed to being seen as loopholes around "abstinence pledges" and abstinence-only education.

Texas Teens Increased Sex After Abstinence Program

Mon Jan 31, 4:43 PM ET Health - Reuters

HOUSTON (Reuters) - Abstinence-only sex education programs, a major plank in President Bush (news - web sites)'s education plan, have had no impact on teenagers' behavior in his home state of Texas, according to a new study.

Despite taking courses emphasizing abstinence-only themes, teenagers in 29 high schools became increasingly sexually active, mirroring the overall state trends, according to the study conducted by researchers at Texas A&M University.

"We didn't see any strong indications that these programs were having an impact in the direction desired," said Dr. Buzz Pruitt, who directed the study.

The study was delivered to the Texas Department of State Health Services, which commissioned it.

The federal government is expected to spend about $130 million to fund programs advocating abstinence in 2005, despite a lack of evidence that they work, Pruitt said.

"The jury is still out, but most of what we've discovered shows there's no evidence the large amount of money spent is having an effect," he said.

The study showed about 23 percent of ninth-grade girls, typically 13 to 14 years old, had sex before receiving abstinence education. After taking the course, 29 percent of the girls in the same group said they had had sex.

Boys in the tenth grade, about 14 to 15 years old, showed a more marked increase, from 24 percent to 39 percent, after receiving abstinence education.

Abstinence-only programs, which have sprouted up in schools across the nation, cannot offer information about birth control and must promote the social and health benefits of abstaining from sex.

Pruitt said he hoped the study would bring about changes in the content of abstinence-promoting programs.

"These programs seem to be much more concerned about politics than kids, and we need to get over that," he said.

One program technique has been to try to bolster students' self-esteem, based on the theory that self-confident teenagers would not have sex. Those programs, which sometimes do not even mention sex, have shown no effect, Pruitt said.

Other programs that focus on the social norms and expectations appear to be more successful, he said.

Copyright © 2005 Reuters Limited

[cjolley]

No, it's like saying that birth control makes "free love" possible, which is exactly what happened in the 60s.

Birth Control -vs- Vaccination
Taken as an Adult -vs- as a Child
Pertains directly to sex -vs- Not
Short Term -vs- Long Term
Self Administered -vs- Not

What a trenchant analogy.

[Umfriend]

While this particular article may give the religious slant if you spend any time reading the papers from third world countries like India you'd see that the safety issue is also a major concern there.

The thing is, the religious slant is the only one thst is relevant. The medical/scientific slant will be aimed at objectively find the best solution by either changing the vaccine or finding that it is simply to dangerous. The religious slant however does not care about dangers to health or about social issues. Their agenda is to further their fixed set of morals onto everybody because ... because ... well, that's the thing, it's just because.

Luckily, there are many religious people who disagree with statements like Maher.

[Dr Mordrid]

No, it's like saying that birth control makes "free love" possible, which is exactly what happened in the 60s.

Pre-teens organizing oral sex parties? Where did you read this?

First in a TV report by Katie Couric of NBC News that featured interviews with early and pre-teens;

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6872484/

Then in follow up reports by many other papers and media outlets. It's now pretty much accepted as a major problem by authorities on the subject.

Text of Toronto Globe and Mail articles;

http://www.fradical.com/Stolen_childhood1.htm

(using this link because the G & M requires registration)

and there have been several reports of such things here in Michigan, not to mention my daughter (now 25) confirming to me that this was also typical in our small town of 50,000 when she was growing up and has gotten worse since.

Dr. Mordrid

[Gurm]

It's interesting to look at cause-and-effect.

MORE teens have unprotected sex in areas where abstinence-only education is encouraged or required. Kind of kills the whole "sex ed causes promiscuity" argument, doesn't it?

I agree that handing out condoms does send the wrong message. But a vaccination as a child against a deadly and yet highly preventable disease, even one that's spread sexually... is a GREAT idea.

You have to remember that no matter how "good" your daughter might be, when she finally DOES have sex - even if it's on her wedding night, although I can only think of how horrifying that would be - she can contract anything that anyone her partner has been in contact with might have had.

And let's face it - the same people that oppose this vaccination also oppose condoms and birth control in general. So there a girl is, having unprotected sex for the first time - again, even if it's on her wedding night - and you OPPOSE her having been vaccinated against the very real risk of HPV? You're putting a lot of faith in a horny young man having never dipped his wick before. More faith than I'd be willing to muster!

'Cuz let's face it - statistics also show that "good young men" who go to church... have MORE unprotected premarital sex than their secular counterparts. Oops!

And y'know, that's the real problem with all of this moral posturing. It doesn't wash. You can say until you're blue in the face that telling kids to wait and getting them to promise to wait works... but statistics show that it really doesn't. That "church kids" are MORE promiscuous, and engage in MORE risky behavior than their secular counterparts. You wouldn't think so, but it's true. It doesn't SEEM to make sense, but that's just how it happens. You can't argue with the numbers. What you CAN do is try to figure out what the problem is - and the problem is that there's a fundamental flaw in thinking that ramming abstinence down the throat of a horny teenager, no matter how "good" that teenager is, will help. In fact, it does the opposite.

Kids who don't get "real" sex-ed don't know what sex actually IS. Take my friend Karen (name changed to protect the not-so-innocent). She was a church kid. Raised Christian. Good kid. Was dating a nice Christian boy. They start making out one night, and neither one of them knows where the line is between risky and not-so-risky. She actually thought, because her parents had refused to let her go to sex-ed, that you couldn't get pregnant the first time you had sex. And the boy thought that so long as he pulled out, she couldn't get pregnant. You can see where this is going, right? She was a mommy at 16. Took her forever to finish high school.

Keeping kids ignorant is NOT the answer. Refusing to take cautious steps is NOT the answer. Thinking that if you spend the first 18 years of their life shielding them, that then they will go off to college and NOT go utterly crazy... is criminally stupid.

[Sasq]

Remember a conversation with my Dad - may he rest in peace - years ago.
Dad was born in '36, small country town, everyone went to church, he was a junior minister even.

about 13 years ago I met my half brother, that my father didn't even know I had.

anyway, back to the story, I asked him years ago, back when I was still a testosterone filled teenager - what was the deal with sexual activity when he was a kid/teenager.

Gotta give the old guy credit for being blunt.
answer:
Same as now, we just didn't talk about it as much.

[Nowhere]

I'll just add to the discussion about mercury/vaccination safety this story from /. (just found it, haven't read it yet)