Like freakin' rabbits....

[Dr Mordrid]

3 pregnancies: one single birth and TWO sets of quads

Yes...fertility drugs were involved

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,15439320%255E911,00.html

Dr. Mordrid

[Gurm]

I'm unsure of the stats on quads, but I've always maintained that doctors that don't selectively reduce to 2 or 3 are medically irresponsible. And I know all about the "religious beliefs of the parents" argument... fine. So make them sign a waiver - if they WANT the treatment, they have to be willing to have the number reduced.

Again, I'm not sure about quads, but I know for a fact that quints and higher have LOUSY prognoses for the future. In fact, most quints don't live very long or very healthily, all things considered.

People hail this sort of thing as a "medical miracle" when in reality VERY FEW people can afford to raise 8 kids, even if they were all perfectly healthy - which is unlikely.

I don't know if any of you have seen the periodic checkups on the Macaughay septuples. (Or was it sextuplets? I forget.) They're all retarded and stuff. They're 3 and none of them can talk, only one of them can walk, one can't even hold her head up. But it's a "medical miracle", right? A blessing from God? Yeah, right.

[Lizzard[MPE]]

I don't know if any of you have seen the periodic checkups on the Macaughay septuples. (Or was it sextuplets? I forget.) They're all retarded and stuff. They're 3 and none of them can talk, only one of them can walk, one can't even hold her head up. But it's a "medical miracle", right? A blessing from God? Yeah, right.

these kids? http://www.mccaugheyseptuplets.com/ you can go to the voice page and seem them all talk. its not like they are spouting out Shakespeare but they are 3 after all.

[Jon P. Inghram]

They just need an ex-con and a cop to steal one...

[GT98]

these kids? http://www.mccaugheyseptuplets.com/ you can go to the voice page and seem them all talk. its not like they are spouting out Shakespeare but they are 3 after all.

Its scarey that webpage is done by a Fan of the family!

[KvHagedorn]

I'm unsure of the stats on quads, but I've always maintained that doctors that don't selectively reduce to 2 or 3 are medically irresponsible. And I know all about the "religious beliefs of the parents" argument... fine. So make them sign a waiver - if they WANT the treatment, they have to be willing to have the number reduced.

Again, I'm not sure about quads, but I know for a fact that quints and higher have LOUSY prognoses for the future. In fact, most quints don't live very long or very healthily, all things considered.

People hail this sort of thing as a "medical miracle" when in reality VERY FEW people can afford to raise 8 kids, even if they were all perfectly healthy - which is unlikely.

I don't know if any of you have seen the periodic checkups on the Macaughay septuples. (Or was it sextuplets? I forget.) They're all retarded and stuff. They're 3 and none of them can talk, only one of them can walk, one can't even hold her head up. But it's a "medical miracle", right? A blessing from God? Yeah, right.

Okay, Dr. Mengele, which FOUR of these children would you have mudered out of "medical responsibility?" Yeah, I used Mengele as an example, knowing you are Jewish, because I want to particularly drive home the point to you that what you are proposing is really no different than what he did. Abortion is murder, pure and simple. And requiring a mother to allow a "doctor" to murder her children in order to receive medical treatment is as evil and cruel as what the concentration camp guard did in Sophie's Choice. Guess you will have to change that "pro-choice" misnomer right now, call it "pro-Sophie's Choice" instead, eh?

[Lizzard[MPE]]

i understand what Gurm is saying about more then 3 at a time is a bit much.... and it wouldnt happen as often as it does if it wasnt for the fertlilty drugs involved...

and i'd like to add to that its somewhat unfair for people to have lets say 7-8 kids and they get basically their lives sponsored by companies when people are struggling their asses off to raise maybe just one kid. and these parents get so many free-be's for the children because basically who the hell can support that many kids? and a message to these people. if you cant support 7 kids on your own then you should re think the situation before you decide to have 7 kids. im sure when these kids become of age some car company will want to advertise that the 7 kids drive their cars and they'll give the family brand new cars for the kids 16th birtdays. i can almost bet on it.

anyway thats really bothered me about these situations.
oh yes, and im not sure what gurms point is about these kids. they all seem like lovely kids. and even if they did have something wrong with them as in you so eloquentlyput it as retardation. theres still nothing wrong with that. people are born with problems. not everyones birth is perfect. not every person on this planet is in perfect health. theres no reason to pick on them.


ok so moving on i really didnt want this thread to turn into another fight. so guys before this starts lets not go there.

[Sasq]

knowing the region they are from in Australia, while religion might have played a part, its more the large country family thing.

A family friend a few years back had 5 due to treatment, it nearly killed them. *parents and looking after the children, fortunatly it was an extended Lebanese family so plenty of relatives to pitch in.

personaly I think wanting 12 kids is insane, I'll stick with the plan of 2 max 3 methinks.

[KvHagedorn]

All right, then.. nuff said above, anyhow. When such things gets proposed, it just has to be challenged, though, imo.

About the cost.. you know, people used to have large families all the time, but nowadays they would prefer to have one child and buy a lot of stuff instead, not to mention that too much of the higher cost of medical care is really unwarranted. But that again is another discussion. Values: I would rather have more kids and less mammon. Not nine at the expense of the state, but maybe four and fewer unneccesary luxuries.

[Sasq]

above family friend has his own biz, so cash wasn't an issue, the couple in the article however..
he is a security guard, which in oz, pays about the same as the states - sweet f*** all.
So even with the 5, they are already being supported by the state - just the way the system works in oz.

Here average is two, for no other reason then there are no student loans, parents have to pay for UNI, as well as 10 years of cram school to get them into uni. Just can't afford any more.

[KvHagedorn]

Well, I think the key here is average. Aside from the fact that there are really too many people on the planet, in order for two to be average, those who have children will have to average more than two. Even an average of two children would result in a declining population when one considers that there are accidents, disease, murder, infertility, homosexuality, and any number of factors which might make one of those two children not reproduce themselves, so there needs to be some kind of backup to account for the deficit. Kids who grow up in larger families naturally learn better social skills as well, so that's a good thing, too. If they are all the same age, though.. I dunno..

[Sasq]

Japan has a declining population, i think its by the year 3083 or so, there will be 2 Japanese nationals left - current curve continues...

But a decline in population here is not such a bad thing, i live in an area with 9000ppl/km2
there are 127 million of us on a tiny set of 4 main islands...

[KvHagedorn]

And a lot of that land is mountains.. yes, Japan, China, India, Bangladesh, etc. all have problems. It's a good thing the Japanese are so civilized.. I don't think we could handle that kind of pop density very well in the US.

[Wombat]

Okay, Dr. Mengele, which FOUR of these children would you have mudered out of "medical responsibility?" Yeah, I used Mengele as an example, knowing you are Jewish, because I want to particularly drive home the point to you that what you are proposing is really no different than what he did.

Actually, I think you did it just because you enjoy being an ******* sometimes. This isn't even an argument, you're just taking an opportunity to insult someone you dislike.

Abortion is murder, pure and simple. And requiring a mother to allow a "doctor" to murder her children in order to receive medical treatment is as evil and cruel as what the concentration camp guard did in Sophie's Choice. Guess you will have to change that "pro-choice" misnomer right now, call it "pro-Sophie's Choice" instead, eh?

I think we're looking at this:


I can't see that as murder. But I do see putting 5 of them in one uterus, watching them grow until they start to think and feel, and just kinda hoping they'll make it to be murderously irresponsible.

[KvHagedorn]

I don't dislike Gurm.. but some of the things he says..

Just like you feel about what I say sometimes.

Now, if you will give that social-liberal hot tempered reaction a cold shower, your reasoning side will have the sense to know that almost no one aborts at 3 days gestation. By the time the mother really knows she is pregnant, the baby is much further along. I would have expected a better argument than that, but I promised not to continue arguing, so I won't.