The EU in crisis

[The PIT]

T

Otherwise UK problem is specific historic problem. They always had aversion of some continental power being able to threaten or compete with them. At first it was France, then in 19th century it became Germany. Right now they see EU as sort of threat to their "empire". Problem is that due to mistakes their empire is a long gone past and they should rethink their position and interests. Churchill discussing the future with other two of the big three was the last time UK meant any power on the world stage, so they should quit playing out special card and tout particular interests just to heal their imperial aspirations.

Nothing to do with the Empire that's dead and buried long ago. As for Power would you want an EU say dominated by say Britian to effectively Govern you???? Would you like Tony Blair telling you what to do. The French said no becuase they were afraid there role in the EU becoming less and therefore there interests wouldn't be so well looked after. Perhaps the EU should forget closer Political ties and concentrate more on trade.

[Kurt]

@Nowhere: yes I was refering to Brian's i). there's nothing wrong with the plugs, but I think it won't be tomorrow before we get true plug and play

@Brian: tariffs are in place against subsidised products already. what I'm saying is that we should keep SOME agricultors on EU land. Don't care whether they're Chinese/US/Martian owned, as long are they're there and so's the "lore".

The CAP is in effect counter productive as the agricultors are not competitive. In Belgium, for ex., there's over production of meat and milk. The specific problem here is that farms are very small, so they don't get economies of scale. I'm 100% in favor of opening the market so farmers start buying out each other and rationalize all of this. We have friends in France who have a big farm with a couple of tractors. Here, for farmland of the same size, you have sth like 10-20. That's overkill, but each farmer has to equip...

If farms can't survive without the subsidies AND they're over producing, it's time to kill that system and let the free market rule in. If the industry becomes crippled in some form, states can always reinstate some subsidies later (at least they would be really needed this time).

@UtwigMU: I was just teasing Nowhere

[Brian Ellis]

Perhaps the EU should forget closer Political ties and concentrate more on trade.

Which is how it started, specifically with co-ordinating the steel industry. The current "crisis" is because a) they wield too much political and undemocratic power and b) France, Germany, the UK and Italy (in that order) all want to be the top political dog, able to control all the others. The whole system is far too bureaucratic and corrupt. They need me to become the benign dictator for a few months. At least ½ of the functionaries would be looking for new jobs, as I would close down several departments that have a purely political function and I'd thin down the rest. In addition, I would make lobbying MEPS, Commissioners and functionaries by enterprises, trade organisations, industrial organisations and NGOs a criminal offence. The EU guys would get their info by invitation only and acceptance of a gift, even a lunch, in any form, would mean instant dismissal. The gravy train must be stopped.

[Technoid]

I would make lobbying MEPS, Commissioners and functionaries by enterprises, trade organisations, industrial organisations and NGOs a criminal offence. The EU guys would get their info by invitation only and acceptance of a gift, even a lunch, in any form, would mean instant dismissal. The gravy train must be stopped.

That would be a big step in the right direction....

It should also be implemented in the member countries for politicians

[The PIT]

Which is how it started, specifically with co-ordinating the steel industry. The current "crisis" is because a) they wield too much political and undemocratic power and b) France, Germany, the UK and Italy (in that order) all want to be the top political dog, able to control all the others. The whole system is far too bureaucratic and corrupt. They need me to become the benign dictator for a few months. At least ½ of the functionaries would be looking for new jobs, as I would close down several departments that have a purely political function and I'd thin down the rest. In addition, I would make lobbying MEPS, Commissioners and functionaries by enterprises, trade organisations, industrial organisations and NGOs a criminal offence. The EU guys would get their info by invitation only and acceptance of a gift, even a lunch, in any form, would mean instant dismissal. The gravy train must be stopped.

Hold on we're going for a first here. Me and Brian agreeing.

Going back to power and having a say in Europe.

At present in the UK it's very hard to get a politician too represent you. You're fairly isolated and getting them too listen is nearly impossible. Move the power to Europe and it gets even worse. Local issues won't matter at all and in fact your country becomes a small local issue which will be ignored mostly as well.

[Kurt]

The EU guys would get their info by invitation only and acceptance of a gift, even a lunch, in any form, would mean instant dismissal. The gravy train must be stopped.

You can't enforce that. It's common in ALL public administrations, EVERYWHERE.

I do agree we must get rid of soooo many EU functionaries. Soooo many are just morons brought in through relations and benefitting from public money. Whatever public concourses they have now are just a smoke screen. They only get you into a list. Then, if you know nobody, your 2 yeqrs expire qnd you're still not in. If you know somebody, then they give you work. There ARE of course exceptions to confirm the rule.

The ones that really work their asses off are the ones still in their trial period and contractors.

[magog]

Yeah well, France may be getting more in Agirculture aid then the UK does, but the UK gets more per farmer, so what gives? I say this is just a tactic by the UK, who have never been a huge fan of EU.

I say the UK hands in 1 bln per annum and the EU gives us the 1.5 bln annual discount we should get and we're all done.

Sounds hard but I think the UK should be kicked out of the EU.
Every time there is a decision to be made they block or get a extra bonus.

Every country in the EU has the EURO but the UK has not. WHY?
The UK have this Agriculture "bonus" since Thatcher where there were milk seas and meat moutains. This has changed a lot. I don't see any reason why they still should get the bonus.
Germany still pays the most into the EU cash box but when you look at different performance statistics we now tend to be in the middle (at best).

[Technoid]

Every country in the EU has the EURO but the UK has not. WHY?.

Sweden does not have the Euro (thankfully)

[Brian Ellis]

Sounds hard but I think the UK should be kicked out of the EU.
Every time there is a decision to be made they block or get a extra bonus.

Every country in the EU has the EURO but the UK has not. WHY?
The UK have this Agriculture "bonus" since Thatcher where there were milk seas and meat moutains. This has changed a lot. I don't see any reason why they still should get the bonus.
Germany still pays the most into the EU cash box but when you look at different performance statistics we now tend to be in the middle (at best).

I disagree with you.

1) Only about half the EU countries have the Euro, so why single out one of them that doesn't? Anyway, making stupid comments like your's diminishes your credibility.

2) France and Germany have blocked more decisions than the UK.

3) It is normal that the country with the biggest population pays more than countries with small ones. I suppose you want Luxembourg and Malta to pay the same as Germany???

4) What really counts is the per capita GDP-weighted payments less receipts. What the UK is objecting to is that, without the rebate, it would have, by far, the largest figure to pay according to this formula, while France would be in negative territory. The UK is not blocking a reduction of the rebate. It is seeking a more equitable way of the distribution of wealth. France is doing the blocking here by refusing a reduction in agricultural subsidies; if France gave way on this, then Blair has said the way would be open for negotiation. It is France that is intransigent.