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Originally posted by breezer
in effect, it provides a legal loophole which could be used to infringe on not only the 5th amendment (personal rights) but several others (religion, quartering soldiers, search and seizure, and even possibly the rights to bear arms).
interesting quotes on this:
from another forum:
Since our American Revolution and the political debate that led to the Consitiution was based on a premise that governments grew out of the consent of the governed and that individual rights (including property rights - read the Founders' writings) are inalienable (i.e. pre-exist government and are not "granted" by government), this effectively destroys property rights.
The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others. His own good, either physical or moral, is not sufficient warrant.
Tell your roommate this scenario:
You own 5 acres of land (big lot within city limits), of which you have your house. You pay, I don't know, $3,000 a year in property taxes, and another $1,000 to the school district, water district, etc. They make $4,000 off you a year.
A developer comes along, and decides your lot would be a nice shopping center or some such. He pushes it through the zoning commission to get your property zoned commercial from residential, especially since you aren't in a platted subdivision. Then, he goes to city council, and proposes his shopping center in place of your house, and because he'd be opening businesses, the property value has increased (meaning more property tax money), plus the added benefit of those businesses collecting sales taxes (meaning more money going into the local public funds). If he can promise them more than $4,000 a year in revenue, then you can be effectively out on the street, since public monies can be spent on public things, like education, social programs, etc. By default, his business on your lot, florishing, is for "the public good."
And, the real kicker, is that he nor the city have to give you more than fair market value for the land as YOU have it, with YOUR improvements. If your land and house appraise at say, $175,000 ($150,000 house and $5K an acre), but once the land is his it may be worth up to or over a million once the shopping center goes up, he nor the city will pay you the $825,000 difference. He just got your land on the cheap.
I see three options:
1) do nothing, take the money, whatever they give you, and walk away, or go to state court, potentially lose, and get even less than what they were going to give you.
2) barricade yourself into your house, end up on the news either as some as some crazed nut or some lone little young Goodman Brown, in which after you are dead, people will sing songs about you.
3) smile with great satisfaction knowing that even though that your arm will be stuck with a needle in a few years, you got to slit the throats of your enemies (the developer).
You own 5 acres of land (big lot within city limits), of which you have your house. You pay, I don't know, $3,000 a year in property taxes, and another $1,000 to the school district, water district, etc. They make $4,000 off you a year.
A developer comes along, and decides your lot would be a nice shopping center or some such. He pushes it through the zoning commission to get your property zoned commercial from residential, especially since you aren't in a platted subdivision. Then, he goes to city council, and proposes his shopping center in place of your house, and because he'd be opening businesses, the property value has increased (meaning more property tax money), plus the added benefit of those businesses collecting sales taxes (meaning more money going into the local public funds). If he can promise them more than $4,000 a year in revenue, then you can be effectively out on the street, since public monies can be spent on public things, like education, social programs, etc. By default, his business on your lot, florishing, is for "the public good."
And, the real kicker, is that he nor the city have to give you more than fair market value for the land as YOU have it, with YOUR improvements. If your land and house appraise at say, $175,000 ($150,000 house and $5K an acre), but once the land is his it may be worth up to or over a million once the shopping center goes up, he nor the city will pay you the $825,000 difference. He just got your land on the cheap.
I see three options:
1) do nothing, take the money, whatever they give you, and walk away, or go to state court, potentially lose, and get even less than what they were going to give you.
2) barricade yourself into your house, end up on the news either as some as some crazed nut or some lone little young Goodman Brown, in which after you are dead, people will sing songs about you.
3) smile with great satisfaction knowing that even though that your arm will be stuck with a needle in a few years, you got to slit the throats of your enemies (the developer).
another one:
Anyone who has ever read Ayn Rand's theories on Capitalism and basic individual rights and read a little history knows this is the first step in ending a democracy. This is why it was originally "life, liberty, and property.." Without property rights and the protections therein, we are all owned by the government.
This was a horrible decision. Had this happened 200 years ago there would have been a revolution, but I think they have us so sedated by Wal-mart, Internet, and Play station they know they can pretty do whatever they want now.
I guess Americans have all been so dumbed down in public schools, I doubt most even remember Shay's Rebellion.
Where's Daniel Shays when you need him?
Here's my question for LEO's. I have heard some interviewed say they are not leaving their property. You're an LEO assigned to remove them from their property, what are you going to do?
If you answer, yes... you will do it, the next question is at what point do you stop following government orders?
This was a horrible decision. Had this happened 200 years ago there would have been a revolution, but I think they have us so sedated by Wal-mart, Internet, and Play station they know they can pretty do whatever they want now.
I guess Americans have all been so dumbed down in public schools, I doubt most even remember Shay's Rebellion.
Where's Daniel Shays when you need him?
Here's my question for LEO's. I have heard some interviewed say they are not leaving their property. You're an LEO assigned to remove them from their property, what are you going to do?
If you answer, yes... you will do it, the next question is at what point do you stop following government orders?
beautiful.
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